06-03-2021, 12:53 AM
Interview with Jane Stobie by Mary Mcardle Suma
February 11, 2000
Author: JonBenet's Gift: A Miracle for the Millennium
Transcript provided by 1000 Sparks & Chris
Mame - I was just telling Frank that we got to meet and talked about your book and had a wonderful opportunity to meet you. and I read the book Tell us about the book and then go into the book and about you.
Jane: I started writing it l.5 years ago about the Ramseys and a little story turned into a spiritual and amazing journey of mine and lots of people involved in this case have had strange things occur and draws them to this case. I live in a little house in Denver and am an average person and found myself compelled to write this book
Mame - You and I talked about this. I am an average person and Frank too. Look at the great bright caring people it's astounding ..that bring gifts to this case looking for a day in court
Jane - Since I published this book I found more people throughout the US that are concerned. We are not finding justice from officials in Boulder and think the common people can find Justice for this murder.
Mame- and this came through our reading yesterday, didn't it
Jane - Yes
Mame -
Jane: maybe these common people could find a solution to this problem
Mame - and this came through in our reading
Jane - yes
Mame : it was quite ... I had alot of other family things happened and didn't have time to ponder what our time together meant to me and to the case and so on I left your house not quite teary but moved more than I have been in a long time I want to get into the book and maybe e come back to this... let's not go into my reading yet... The book for me... I come from a family that believes, it's unspoken , in physic abilities like when Aunt Tessy died and there came a rap at the door and no one was there ....so on and on ....the women in my family all have had an intuitive sense they developed I started the book although I was a little skeptical because in Boulder there are a lot of shingles out and with people say things some are the best.... some times it is hard to believe everyone. I read about you in PMPT and found the business side fascinating.. spent three hours with Judith Phillips on the personal side and the book not really rolling my eyes but wonder and immediately drawn in but in the middle got hooked and by the end there were a few moments that were hair raising hard to describe and encourage everyone to buy Barnes and Nobles - Amazon
Jane - It's not in all bookstores but on my site at jonbenetsgift.com
Mame - It's an excellent website. Tell us about your journey from beginning ..you were with JR's company for four years from 90 -94.
Jane - and I have had this intuitive gift most of my life and for most of my life have been a skeptic with this. you know I certain can understand anyone skeptic with my story cause I went through it too. I worked for JB during thAT time and because of my intuition I have the ability to read people. and I thought there is just something strange about that family and Patsy mother and sister worked for me in my tenure and the end of AG because of my background in being a survivor of childhood sexual abuse I recognized there was some dysfunctional behavior going on that was familiar and disturbing. It started out that I worked for him and was disturbed be the family. I remember going into his office and he was one of the persons that was very hard to read. I remember leaving his office I would feel physically ill.
Mame: I remember you telling me that the other day and asked if he ever hit on you and you said absolutely not.
Jane - It was just a feeling about the energy of that person and I talked to other women about him and some who had backgrounds of abuse got the same reaction.
Mame - Did you say to yourself "this guys abusing his kids" or was it more just a sense of bade vibes
Jane - I wouldn't have known it at that time, but my instincts told me there was something not right there. and at the time JonBent was two or three years old.
Mame - and you had limited exposure to her
Jane - yes limited exposure to her and to John but I can say I always felt uncomfortable and there is something it's just ....about him that gave me the creeps.
Mame -ok, tell us about John Ramseys and give us sorta a profile business wise and working with him in a company... this company was little...
Jane - When John came to work for the company he seemed we had this boisterous president. When John came he seem very mild mannered very sophisticated and gotta say he was a brilliant business man, no one can take that away from him, but there was an aloofness and coldness to him that made people feel uncomfortable.
Mame - Was he like that with everyone.
JaNe - I don't think with everyone.
Mame - Was it a moody up and down or was he consistent?
Jane - I think it was consistent except for those he favored
Mame - and those changed?
Jane - Yes, and that was interesting it was like they were in his favor in executive management for a few months and the next thing you knew they were fired.
Mame - so this wasn't like a fair fun place to work
Jane - Well there are several different views to this. If you were in the favor side it was a great place to work, but I think that if you weren't in that inner circle it was difficult.
Mame - I see. and you experienced both sides to that
Jane - Yes but I always tried to stay on the outside cause there was something about the inside which I knew I didn't want. It was against my value system.
Mame - You make a comment in your book that there was a noticeable changer or was it PMPT, you described JR as someone who could at least during your time, JR could handle errors but couldn't handle lack of integrity, but that changed.
Jane - Well I think over time
Mame: You make a comment in the book...there was a noticeable change...you describe John Ramsey as someone who could, at least during part of your tenure there, uh he could handle errors but he couldn't handle lack of integrity. But that changed...
JS: Well, I think that over time, and I'm not the only one who noticed this, that there were changes in John and I think that from what I've been told, the death of his daughter Beth was very disturbing to him and I think that the more the company grew, you could see changes in John. There must have been a tremendous amount of pressure on him. And it was just...
Mame: Did he become more cold?
JS: Yes, ruthless. Yes, all of those things, Yes.
Mame: Would you describe him as always being ruthless?
JS: No, not at the beginning, not at all.
Mame: Okay
JS: But again, maybe he just wasn't showing his true colors. And again I want to say that he was a brilliant businessman. But there was an undercurrent at that company that was almost sinister. So when I heard that JonBenet had been murdered, I wasn't surprised.
Mame: You just intuitively knew, well, anytime a child is murdered, it's shocking but given your experiences you thought there could have been poison or repercussions or...?
JS: Yes, and I thought that there was something about that family that was not right. And it's like I thought, when I initially heard about the murder, oh, they finally went too far. And I have pretty good instincts.
Mame: is there anything else you want to add about John?
JS: NO, I think much of this has already been printed.
Mame: Right. That's one of the reasons I dont' want to stick to long on it, but I also think it's fascinating the time you were able to spend with Nedra and her daughters, not so much Patsy, but the other sisters.
JS: Yes.
Mame: Tell us a little bit about that. You were sent to Atlanta. You commuted.
JS: I was sent to Atlanta to manage the supplies division of the company and that division had been headed by Patsy's mother for a number of years. I think it was a nice little business for the family but when Lockheed came to take over Access, they didn't want Patsy's...the family relationships became more difficult, they wanted to do something about the nepotism. I was sent to Atlanta to close the facilities so Nedra and Polly worked for me. That's when I really saw the red flags. That's when my own background with child abuse, that's when I really saw the red flags.
Mame: Were they obviously immediatley disfunctional appearing...er, dysfunctional to you?
JS: Yes. Absolutely. I had been warned about taking that job from a number of people, including my boss. They said 'watch out for Nedra, she's really mean' - a lot of people had experiences with her at Access Graphics. She just, she goes into rage.
Mame: Did she (go into rages)?
JS: Yes. I personally experienced it. I'll never forget this one day she came to my office, closed the door and it was like a scene from the Exorcist. I started to pray immediately. She came after me with such venom...
Mame: Is that the incident where you had shut it (the division) down, er..?
JS: We were getting prepared, we had just shut it down. She knew what was happening. I mean, her husband was the VP of the company and her son was the President. Surely she knew this was coming. I became the scapegoat which was very characteristic of how they handled this type of situation. It's interesting how they are scapegoating the press and the police and...they are following the same pattern.
Mame: They know exactly how to do that.
JS: right. And that's sort of their...
Mame: Corporate damage, er Family damage control.
JS: The scapegoating to me seemed to be a big part of what they were about. But Nedra, I'm telling you, THAT scared me.
Mame: Tell us about her.
JS: An amazing woman. Um, my accountant who worked for me there said she's the meanest woman I have ever met...or, these are the meanest people I have ever met.
Mame: And it was all for self-promotion and protection of her daughters?
JS: Yes. And it was like, if I could say what might have happened there, maybe she didn't grow up in the richest family and all of a sudden they had money and power and you know, there could have been some old stuff there lingering from her past. But, a very unusual woman. A lot of power and control over her daughters. Moreso than I'd say the normal family.
Mame: Did you have any indication in your time with her. Did she relay any information about her mother? The generational...
JS: No, the only thing she indicated to me was that she had grown up not in a wealthy family. And that when she married Patsy's father, Don Paugh, she was amazed that he picked her.
Mame: Was that her second marriage?
JS: I don't know. I just know that she was amazed that a man like Don Paugh would pick her.
Mame: Now, and even then, did you pick up from her, possible sexual abuse going on.
JS: I think one of the amazing things was, and this was not told to me directly, it was told to a group of employees there, Nedra and one of her employees were talking to several empoyees about the size of Burke's...
Mame: Boy, that's a famous story.
JS: Why are they paying so much attention to that? And number two, why are they saying that about that child? And I almost felt bad reporting that and talking about that, but I think it JonBenet hadn't been murdered, I mean, somebody's got to pay attention to...there's something wrong here, with these folks.
Mame: Absolutely. And, one of the most chilling comment from a parent about a child, you relay in that when patsy had cancer, which sister told you that Don Paugh told which sister he wished it had been her. You tell us...
JS: Right. I have a friend in Denver who is close to Pam. When Patsy got cancer, Pam told this friend that when Patsy got cancer, Don Paugh said why couldn't it have been you (to Pam). Patsy was the favorite in the family. I thought that was a horrific comment. I have to say that I have empathy for any of those girls, but for Pam in particular.
Mame: As a parent myself, one never replaces the other. Ever. No matter how good, bad or in-between. That was an indication to me of true meanness. And not a wholesome sense for your children and what they are going through. Which one, was one more normal that stood apart, was more sensitive and kind or what?
JS: I had a lot of people...Pam was a more normal person when she was away from her family. I can imagine that it must have been difficult to stay away from the tenacles of Nedra. I think that would be very difficult. You know, in families where there is so much enmeshment, it's hard to break loose.
Mame: It is. I'm mixing up my J-girls - Jane and Judith. I can't remember if it was you or Judith who related to me that the phone calls between Nedra and Patsy went on all day long.
JS: They did. I used to have to approve the phone bills for payment from Atlanta and my boss instructed me to ignore them. There could be ten phone calls in a day.
Mame: hmmm, this was an adult woman, with her own family, in another state.
JS: Right. I would think, I call my parents maybe once a day or once a week. Normal people don't call their parents 10 times a day, do they?
Mame: Not unless there's a huge crisis. I probably talk to my mom more than most, once or day or three or four times a week. Let's move on from there. quickly, Don Paugh, people have a lot of questions about Don. You know, he isn't talked about much. It's always the women. But, give us a glimpse of Don Paugh.
JS: One of the things is, he's probably an enigma. It's difficult to really get a true picture of him. I know that there were times in my work exprience with him, where he would be very kind and gracious. And then turn on you in...very quickly.
Mame: What was his position again, at Access? John Ramsey was CEO, right?
JS: He was a vice president. He had a lot to do with operations.
Mame: Remind me, it was a private company but became public when Lockheed took over?
JS: Correct.
Mame: So that changed the rules, big time?
JS: Yes.
Mame: He, uh, he was he sort of the henchman?
JS: I kind of get that impression. I think Don was responsible for a lot more of the operation than we knew. He was in Boulder and Nedra was in Atlanta. And, I remember an employee saying, 'Why do you think Don lives in Boulder and Nedra in Atlanta?' and an employee saying, 'Have you met Nedra?' But, yeah, Don spent most of his time in Boulder.
Mame: He did commute back and forth at times?
JS: yes.
Mame: Tell us about the incident, I missed this in the book. You have an interesting observation with Patsy at a party given by a socialite in Denver.
JS: Right. I went to a party with the Ramseys and that was probably the only real true, interaction I had with Patsy. It was at ______ Castle here in Denver and I can remember when they came. It was a function where Hewlett Packard people and Access graphics people were invited and JOhn and Patsy came and Patsy looked just gorgeous - really done up nice.
Mame: She was a very well-manicured woman and really well taken care of.
JS: Very. So, she sat down with me and I remember they sat near me and Patsy did most of the talking and I think what was most interesting was John kept looking at her with this look of disdain. And, I noticed the same thing on TV. It was like he was almost always afraid of what she was going to say.
Mame: Isnt' that the truth?
JS: And it was like that was my experience at this party. John hardly said anything. It made me feel very uncomfortable that he kept watching her like oh, she's going to say something terrible and like he was embarrassed of her and I felt very uncomfortable.
Mame: And she was just rattling off to you.
JS: Yeah, and I'd never met her before. And she was telling me all this stuff about how she wished she had a career again and I'd never met her before. It was just disturbing how John watched her. If you look at all those interviews on television, he does the same thing. There were so many of those instances
Mame -You made how many trips? You describe every trip in your book. But there's one at night that is just really visually...Each trip to Chatauqua was quite astounding I think as the way you describe it. But you kept going back looking for those specific thing very detailed specific things.
JS- You know she'd say your going see a shaggy dog, and two sheep dogs would walk by that day.
Mame- right
JS- But what all that told me was that we were making contact. Most significant story was about contact was the story about the blue balloon
Mame- yes tell us
JS -I was kinda reluctant too really put this book on the market, when this story happened. I don't care what it takes I have to get this book out because I knew she was contacting us Absolutely. In March of let's see that probably would been 98,no March of this last year, March of 99 there were two full moons.
Mame-right it was a blue moon
JS-blue moon so somebody suggested to me that you take a blue balloon, put helium in the balloon with a blue string, tie your wishes to it and send it to the sky. You know the blue moons only come around once in awhile.
Mame-that's right
JS-We decided some of my friends, four of us decided to get together, one of the lady's at the Safeway got four balloons, and one lady didn't show up and we had four balloons, three of us wrote our wishes down and just on a whim we said you know let's send up a balloon for Jon Benet.So we went across the street from my house, and it was that beautiful blue moon and we sent the balloons to the sky. I didn't think anything of that.
About a month and a half later I was doing a reading and one of the woman who was there that night that sent up the balloons. Jon Benet came to me and said Cindy there's going is a gift for you and your going find it at the base of the tree so just be on the lookout for this gift. Seven days later this woman is walking her dog at Highlands Ranch, which is about 15 miles from my house. Her dog pulls her off the trail and she decides for some reason to follow the dog.
She follows the dog and laying on the ground is a popped blue balloon with a message tied to it and she brought it over to my house and non of us had written it and it just said thank you god for meeting all my needs. And it was like Jon Benet had told her there would be a gift at the base of the tree. And the gift would be something we would all recognize which was the blue balloon. And the handwriting on that note was like a child that had just learned how to write cursive. That did it for me I said she's making contact with me we got to do this.
Mame-right And that started the really intense part of the incredible journey
JS- and it still continues
Mame- it did yesterday
JS yes and I know there's more to come
Mame- well we have probably gone longer than we should but that we have allotted for today but I invite you back because the more time I spend with you in fact I walked in your house yesterday you know I don't want to talk about I basically do the reading and keep stay fresh for our interview but you can't but help to go there I mean the incredible the painting on your wall of Jon Benet which is also the cover of the book is just phenomenal there are so many wonderful clues and things but we could talk about that for even twenty minutes.The old Victorian print that you found that connects up with that but I really need to show the audience that you went to great personal financial risks to do the book.you self published the book you mortgage your houseto do it.
JS- right The traditional publishers didn't want to hear it I think a lot of people, it's almost like the officials in this case people I really think allot of people don't want to hear the truth about this case. That this child was being abused by a wealthy family. Yea I think yea I did I've gone to huge financial risks absolutely believe this story and I think as far as what happened to her the night I'll bet I'm very close to the being accurate maybe theirs a couple details outta place but I absolutely believe this story and an am still compelled to tell it and I was willing to risk everything I had.
Mame-right Well we are thrilled that we have this incredibly rich material and your depth and passion to share it took a lot of guts to even share your own past with being in an abusive situation as a child and we really really appreciate that and I know there are about a hundred things I could think of right now to go and ask those questions of you and we won't do that today. The Internet community um Chris Wheeler who runs the forum at Justice Watch That many of us discuss and talk in put up some excerpts from your book recently and the response was just incredible. So were thrilled to have you with us to discuss this and I encourage everyone to purchase the book it's called JonBenet's Gift Miracle for the Millieum by Jane Gray Stobie.It's available through all major book stores. Tell us about what else you do with your life now.
JS- well another thing I do is I found a number of people who read the book have contacted me for readings. So I do, do readingsand people can call me if there interested in that they can call me at 888-251-2787.
Mame- OK
JS- I have hundreds and hundreds of people that can vouch for my authority .I do believe it's a gift from god and I don't take it lightly. My purpose is healing and hope. That's what I want to offer people so I do, do readings by phone or for people local I can do them here as well.
Mame- Ok
JS- that's another thing I do and I do seminars on how to develop your sixth sense And that information is on my website.
Mame- ok and that again is jonbenets gift.com
JS-Yes
Mame-And I really believe especially after meeting with you yesterday,that those of us who continue to work on this case. In our quiet ways there is no dollar signs next to what we do. And give the news as I do and report the news locally and there is a path that were on there's a reason that were doing it and I do believe and it happen in my reading with you yesterday that very specific information that comes to those of us that are really seeking truth for the right reasons.I have felt that very deeply actually had a chance to have my dad who is a former newspaper man who's been dead for over ten years now speak to me.
And that was quite incredible played the tape for my mom last night and we were both so moved .In fact the cute side of it at one point in the interview and I had forgotten this you described him what he looked like back in his forties and probably the height of his career the beginning of his career as a newspaper man. You even mentioned that he wore Van Heusen shirts and my mom and I laughed and well she didn't laugh I mean it came up in the tape and I said oh by the way mom did he wear Van Heusen's shirts and she said well of course he did.
JS- yea
Mame- and she said yea I bought dozens of those and she ironed them and she told me the story where she bought them at. To her is was as if well why would you even ask Of course he wore Van Heusen's shirts. I have to share that side to it .I do believe and you have just reinforced that in me personally and hundreds of people on the Internet and those that aren't who continuing to keep this case alive. I've met with Judith Phillips this week and several people who hang in there who really believe that this case can be solved it may mean turning over more leaf and looking underneath them and your advice to me was putting on glasses I keep seeing glasses like put on a new pair of glasses.
Looking at it from a different angle. So I thank you for that and I thank you for reinforcing what many of us do very quietly without needing allot of goo ha ha. The Internet community is incredibly powerful and intelligence community and we really appreciate you sharing a part of you Sat. afternoon with us. And we loved to have to back
JS- Oh I loved to and thank you very much and boy I just believe that we can make a difference.
Mame- We absolutely can and I'm going give you the opportunity to bring my sidekick BJ Plasket a newspaper man from the Longmont Times from Longmont.Colorado has requested well he ask me to read the book so I'm going pass it on to him and he's going come in and do a story on you and so were going keep the ball rolling and we love Jane And we respect you for what you're doing and will have you back again
JS- Than You and have a great day!
Mame- You too Jane and take care.
Mame-Bye
JS-Bye
February 11, 2000
Author: JonBenet's Gift: A Miracle for the Millennium
Transcript provided by 1000 Sparks & Chris
Mame - I was just telling Frank that we got to meet and talked about your book and had a wonderful opportunity to meet you. and I read the book Tell us about the book and then go into the book and about you.
Jane: I started writing it l.5 years ago about the Ramseys and a little story turned into a spiritual and amazing journey of mine and lots of people involved in this case have had strange things occur and draws them to this case. I live in a little house in Denver and am an average person and found myself compelled to write this book
Mame - You and I talked about this. I am an average person and Frank too. Look at the great bright caring people it's astounding ..that bring gifts to this case looking for a day in court
Jane - Since I published this book I found more people throughout the US that are concerned. We are not finding justice from officials in Boulder and think the common people can find Justice for this murder.
Mame- and this came through our reading yesterday, didn't it
Jane - Yes
Mame -
Jane: maybe these common people could find a solution to this problem
Mame - and this came through in our reading
Jane - yes
Mame : it was quite ... I had alot of other family things happened and didn't have time to ponder what our time together meant to me and to the case and so on I left your house not quite teary but moved more than I have been in a long time I want to get into the book and maybe e come back to this... let's not go into my reading yet... The book for me... I come from a family that believes, it's unspoken , in physic abilities like when Aunt Tessy died and there came a rap at the door and no one was there ....so on and on ....the women in my family all have had an intuitive sense they developed I started the book although I was a little skeptical because in Boulder there are a lot of shingles out and with people say things some are the best.... some times it is hard to believe everyone. I read about you in PMPT and found the business side fascinating.. spent three hours with Judith Phillips on the personal side and the book not really rolling my eyes but wonder and immediately drawn in but in the middle got hooked and by the end there were a few moments that were hair raising hard to describe and encourage everyone to buy Barnes and Nobles - Amazon
Jane - It's not in all bookstores but on my site at jonbenetsgift.com
Mame - It's an excellent website. Tell us about your journey from beginning ..you were with JR's company for four years from 90 -94.
Jane - and I have had this intuitive gift most of my life and for most of my life have been a skeptic with this. you know I certain can understand anyone skeptic with my story cause I went through it too. I worked for JB during thAT time and because of my intuition I have the ability to read people. and I thought there is just something strange about that family and Patsy mother and sister worked for me in my tenure and the end of AG because of my background in being a survivor of childhood sexual abuse I recognized there was some dysfunctional behavior going on that was familiar and disturbing. It started out that I worked for him and was disturbed be the family. I remember going into his office and he was one of the persons that was very hard to read. I remember leaving his office I would feel physically ill.
Mame: I remember you telling me that the other day and asked if he ever hit on you and you said absolutely not.
Jane - It was just a feeling about the energy of that person and I talked to other women about him and some who had backgrounds of abuse got the same reaction.
Mame - Did you say to yourself "this guys abusing his kids" or was it more just a sense of bade vibes
Jane - I wouldn't have known it at that time, but my instincts told me there was something not right there. and at the time JonBent was two or three years old.
Mame - and you had limited exposure to her
Jane - yes limited exposure to her and to John but I can say I always felt uncomfortable and there is something it's just ....about him that gave me the creeps.
Mame -ok, tell us about John Ramseys and give us sorta a profile business wise and working with him in a company... this company was little...
Jane - When John came to work for the company he seemed we had this boisterous president. When John came he seem very mild mannered very sophisticated and gotta say he was a brilliant business man, no one can take that away from him, but there was an aloofness and coldness to him that made people feel uncomfortable.
Mame - Was he like that with everyone.
JaNe - I don't think with everyone.
Mame - Was it a moody up and down or was he consistent?
Jane - I think it was consistent except for those he favored
Mame - and those changed?
Jane - Yes, and that was interesting it was like they were in his favor in executive management for a few months and the next thing you knew they were fired.
Mame - so this wasn't like a fair fun place to work
Jane - Well there are several different views to this. If you were in the favor side it was a great place to work, but I think that if you weren't in that inner circle it was difficult.
Mame - I see. and you experienced both sides to that
Jane - Yes but I always tried to stay on the outside cause there was something about the inside which I knew I didn't want. It was against my value system.
Mame - You make a comment in your book that there was a noticeable changer or was it PMPT, you described JR as someone who could at least during your time, JR could handle errors but couldn't handle lack of integrity, but that changed.
Jane - Well I think over time
Mame: You make a comment in the book...there was a noticeable change...you describe John Ramsey as someone who could, at least during part of your tenure there, uh he could handle errors but he couldn't handle lack of integrity. But that changed...
JS: Well, I think that over time, and I'm not the only one who noticed this, that there were changes in John and I think that from what I've been told, the death of his daughter Beth was very disturbing to him and I think that the more the company grew, you could see changes in John. There must have been a tremendous amount of pressure on him. And it was just...
Mame: Did he become more cold?
JS: Yes, ruthless. Yes, all of those things, Yes.
Mame: Would you describe him as always being ruthless?
JS: No, not at the beginning, not at all.
Mame: Okay
JS: But again, maybe he just wasn't showing his true colors. And again I want to say that he was a brilliant businessman. But there was an undercurrent at that company that was almost sinister. So when I heard that JonBenet had been murdered, I wasn't surprised.
Mame: You just intuitively knew, well, anytime a child is murdered, it's shocking but given your experiences you thought there could have been poison or repercussions or...?
JS: Yes, and I thought that there was something about that family that was not right. And it's like I thought, when I initially heard about the murder, oh, they finally went too far. And I have pretty good instincts.
Mame: is there anything else you want to add about John?
JS: NO, I think much of this has already been printed.
Mame: Right. That's one of the reasons I dont' want to stick to long on it, but I also think it's fascinating the time you were able to spend with Nedra and her daughters, not so much Patsy, but the other sisters.
JS: Yes.
Mame: Tell us a little bit about that. You were sent to Atlanta. You commuted.
JS: I was sent to Atlanta to manage the supplies division of the company and that division had been headed by Patsy's mother for a number of years. I think it was a nice little business for the family but when Lockheed came to take over Access, they didn't want Patsy's...the family relationships became more difficult, they wanted to do something about the nepotism. I was sent to Atlanta to close the facilities so Nedra and Polly worked for me. That's when I really saw the red flags. That's when my own background with child abuse, that's when I really saw the red flags.
Mame: Were they obviously immediatley disfunctional appearing...er, dysfunctional to you?
JS: Yes. Absolutely. I had been warned about taking that job from a number of people, including my boss. They said 'watch out for Nedra, she's really mean' - a lot of people had experiences with her at Access Graphics. She just, she goes into rage.
Mame: Did she (go into rages)?
JS: Yes. I personally experienced it. I'll never forget this one day she came to my office, closed the door and it was like a scene from the Exorcist. I started to pray immediately. She came after me with such venom...
Mame: Is that the incident where you had shut it (the division) down, er..?
JS: We were getting prepared, we had just shut it down. She knew what was happening. I mean, her husband was the VP of the company and her son was the President. Surely she knew this was coming. I became the scapegoat which was very characteristic of how they handled this type of situation. It's interesting how they are scapegoating the press and the police and...they are following the same pattern.
Mame: They know exactly how to do that.
JS: right. And that's sort of their...
Mame: Corporate damage, er Family damage control.
JS: The scapegoating to me seemed to be a big part of what they were about. But Nedra, I'm telling you, THAT scared me.
Mame: Tell us about her.
JS: An amazing woman. Um, my accountant who worked for me there said she's the meanest woman I have ever met...or, these are the meanest people I have ever met.
Mame: And it was all for self-promotion and protection of her daughters?
JS: Yes. And it was like, if I could say what might have happened there, maybe she didn't grow up in the richest family and all of a sudden they had money and power and you know, there could have been some old stuff there lingering from her past. But, a very unusual woman. A lot of power and control over her daughters. Moreso than I'd say the normal family.
Mame: Did you have any indication in your time with her. Did she relay any information about her mother? The generational...
JS: No, the only thing she indicated to me was that she had grown up not in a wealthy family. And that when she married Patsy's father, Don Paugh, she was amazed that he picked her.
Mame: Was that her second marriage?
JS: I don't know. I just know that she was amazed that a man like Don Paugh would pick her.
Mame: Now, and even then, did you pick up from her, possible sexual abuse going on.
JS: I think one of the amazing things was, and this was not told to me directly, it was told to a group of employees there, Nedra and one of her employees were talking to several empoyees about the size of Burke's...
Mame: Boy, that's a famous story.
JS: Why are they paying so much attention to that? And number two, why are they saying that about that child? And I almost felt bad reporting that and talking about that, but I think it JonBenet hadn't been murdered, I mean, somebody's got to pay attention to...there's something wrong here, with these folks.
Mame: Absolutely. And, one of the most chilling comment from a parent about a child, you relay in that when patsy had cancer, which sister told you that Don Paugh told which sister he wished it had been her. You tell us...
JS: Right. I have a friend in Denver who is close to Pam. When Patsy got cancer, Pam told this friend that when Patsy got cancer, Don Paugh said why couldn't it have been you (to Pam). Patsy was the favorite in the family. I thought that was a horrific comment. I have to say that I have empathy for any of those girls, but for Pam in particular.
Mame: As a parent myself, one never replaces the other. Ever. No matter how good, bad or in-between. That was an indication to me of true meanness. And not a wholesome sense for your children and what they are going through. Which one, was one more normal that stood apart, was more sensitive and kind or what?
JS: I had a lot of people...Pam was a more normal person when she was away from her family. I can imagine that it must have been difficult to stay away from the tenacles of Nedra. I think that would be very difficult. You know, in families where there is so much enmeshment, it's hard to break loose.
Mame: It is. I'm mixing up my J-girls - Jane and Judith. I can't remember if it was you or Judith who related to me that the phone calls between Nedra and Patsy went on all day long.
JS: They did. I used to have to approve the phone bills for payment from Atlanta and my boss instructed me to ignore them. There could be ten phone calls in a day.
Mame: hmmm, this was an adult woman, with her own family, in another state.
JS: Right. I would think, I call my parents maybe once a day or once a week. Normal people don't call their parents 10 times a day, do they?
Mame: Not unless there's a huge crisis. I probably talk to my mom more than most, once or day or three or four times a week. Let's move on from there. quickly, Don Paugh, people have a lot of questions about Don. You know, he isn't talked about much. It's always the women. But, give us a glimpse of Don Paugh.
JS: One of the things is, he's probably an enigma. It's difficult to really get a true picture of him. I know that there were times in my work exprience with him, where he would be very kind and gracious. And then turn on you in...very quickly.
Mame: What was his position again, at Access? John Ramsey was CEO, right?
JS: He was a vice president. He had a lot to do with operations.
Mame: Remind me, it was a private company but became public when Lockheed took over?
JS: Correct.
Mame: So that changed the rules, big time?
JS: Yes.
Mame: He, uh, he was he sort of the henchman?
JS: I kind of get that impression. I think Don was responsible for a lot more of the operation than we knew. He was in Boulder and Nedra was in Atlanta. And, I remember an employee saying, 'Why do you think Don lives in Boulder and Nedra in Atlanta?' and an employee saying, 'Have you met Nedra?' But, yeah, Don spent most of his time in Boulder.
Mame: He did commute back and forth at times?
JS: yes.
Mame: Tell us about the incident, I missed this in the book. You have an interesting observation with Patsy at a party given by a socialite in Denver.
JS: Right. I went to a party with the Ramseys and that was probably the only real true, interaction I had with Patsy. It was at ______ Castle here in Denver and I can remember when they came. It was a function where Hewlett Packard people and Access graphics people were invited and JOhn and Patsy came and Patsy looked just gorgeous - really done up nice.
Mame: She was a very well-manicured woman and really well taken care of.
JS: Very. So, she sat down with me and I remember they sat near me and Patsy did most of the talking and I think what was most interesting was John kept looking at her with this look of disdain. And, I noticed the same thing on TV. It was like he was almost always afraid of what she was going to say.
Mame: Isnt' that the truth?
JS: And it was like that was my experience at this party. John hardly said anything. It made me feel very uncomfortable that he kept watching her like oh, she's going to say something terrible and like he was embarrassed of her and I felt very uncomfortable.
Mame: And she was just rattling off to you.
JS: Yeah, and I'd never met her before. And she was telling me all this stuff about how she wished she had a career again and I'd never met her before. It was just disturbing how John watched her. If you look at all those interviews on television, he does the same thing. There were so many of those instances
Mame -You made how many trips? You describe every trip in your book. But there's one at night that is just really visually...Each trip to Chatauqua was quite astounding I think as the way you describe it. But you kept going back looking for those specific thing very detailed specific things.
JS- You know she'd say your going see a shaggy dog, and two sheep dogs would walk by that day.
Mame- right
JS- But what all that told me was that we were making contact. Most significant story was about contact was the story about the blue balloon
Mame- yes tell us
JS -I was kinda reluctant too really put this book on the market, when this story happened. I don't care what it takes I have to get this book out because I knew she was contacting us Absolutely. In March of let's see that probably would been 98,no March of this last year, March of 99 there were two full moons.
Mame-right it was a blue moon
JS-blue moon so somebody suggested to me that you take a blue balloon, put helium in the balloon with a blue string, tie your wishes to it and send it to the sky. You know the blue moons only come around once in awhile.
Mame-that's right
JS-We decided some of my friends, four of us decided to get together, one of the lady's at the Safeway got four balloons, and one lady didn't show up and we had four balloons, three of us wrote our wishes down and just on a whim we said you know let's send up a balloon for Jon Benet.So we went across the street from my house, and it was that beautiful blue moon and we sent the balloons to the sky. I didn't think anything of that.
About a month and a half later I was doing a reading and one of the woman who was there that night that sent up the balloons. Jon Benet came to me and said Cindy there's going is a gift for you and your going find it at the base of the tree so just be on the lookout for this gift. Seven days later this woman is walking her dog at Highlands Ranch, which is about 15 miles from my house. Her dog pulls her off the trail and she decides for some reason to follow the dog.
She follows the dog and laying on the ground is a popped blue balloon with a message tied to it and she brought it over to my house and non of us had written it and it just said thank you god for meeting all my needs. And it was like Jon Benet had told her there would be a gift at the base of the tree. And the gift would be something we would all recognize which was the blue balloon. And the handwriting on that note was like a child that had just learned how to write cursive. That did it for me I said she's making contact with me we got to do this.
Mame-right And that started the really intense part of the incredible journey
JS- and it still continues
Mame- it did yesterday
JS yes and I know there's more to come
Mame- well we have probably gone longer than we should but that we have allotted for today but I invite you back because the more time I spend with you in fact I walked in your house yesterday you know I don't want to talk about I basically do the reading and keep stay fresh for our interview but you can't but help to go there I mean the incredible the painting on your wall of Jon Benet which is also the cover of the book is just phenomenal there are so many wonderful clues and things but we could talk about that for even twenty minutes.The old Victorian print that you found that connects up with that but I really need to show the audience that you went to great personal financial risks to do the book.you self published the book you mortgage your houseto do it.
JS- right The traditional publishers didn't want to hear it I think a lot of people, it's almost like the officials in this case people I really think allot of people don't want to hear the truth about this case. That this child was being abused by a wealthy family. Yea I think yea I did I've gone to huge financial risks absolutely believe this story and I think as far as what happened to her the night I'll bet I'm very close to the being accurate maybe theirs a couple details outta place but I absolutely believe this story and an am still compelled to tell it and I was willing to risk everything I had.
Mame-right Well we are thrilled that we have this incredibly rich material and your depth and passion to share it took a lot of guts to even share your own past with being in an abusive situation as a child and we really really appreciate that and I know there are about a hundred things I could think of right now to go and ask those questions of you and we won't do that today. The Internet community um Chris Wheeler who runs the forum at Justice Watch That many of us discuss and talk in put up some excerpts from your book recently and the response was just incredible. So were thrilled to have you with us to discuss this and I encourage everyone to purchase the book it's called JonBenet's Gift Miracle for the Millieum by Jane Gray Stobie.It's available through all major book stores. Tell us about what else you do with your life now.
JS- well another thing I do is I found a number of people who read the book have contacted me for readings. So I do, do readingsand people can call me if there interested in that they can call me at 888-251-2787.
Mame- OK
JS- I have hundreds and hundreds of people that can vouch for my authority .I do believe it's a gift from god and I don't take it lightly. My purpose is healing and hope. That's what I want to offer people so I do, do readings by phone or for people local I can do them here as well.
Mame- Ok
JS- that's another thing I do and I do seminars on how to develop your sixth sense And that information is on my website.
Mame- ok and that again is jonbenets gift.com
JS-Yes
Mame-And I really believe especially after meeting with you yesterday,that those of us who continue to work on this case. In our quiet ways there is no dollar signs next to what we do. And give the news as I do and report the news locally and there is a path that were on there's a reason that were doing it and I do believe and it happen in my reading with you yesterday that very specific information that comes to those of us that are really seeking truth for the right reasons.I have felt that very deeply actually had a chance to have my dad who is a former newspaper man who's been dead for over ten years now speak to me.
And that was quite incredible played the tape for my mom last night and we were both so moved .In fact the cute side of it at one point in the interview and I had forgotten this you described him what he looked like back in his forties and probably the height of his career the beginning of his career as a newspaper man. You even mentioned that he wore Van Heusen shirts and my mom and I laughed and well she didn't laugh I mean it came up in the tape and I said oh by the way mom did he wear Van Heusen's shirts and she said well of course he did.
JS- yea
Mame- and she said yea I bought dozens of those and she ironed them and she told me the story where she bought them at. To her is was as if well why would you even ask Of course he wore Van Heusen's shirts. I have to share that side to it .I do believe and you have just reinforced that in me personally and hundreds of people on the Internet and those that aren't who continuing to keep this case alive. I've met with Judith Phillips this week and several people who hang in there who really believe that this case can be solved it may mean turning over more leaf and looking underneath them and your advice to me was putting on glasses I keep seeing glasses like put on a new pair of glasses.
Looking at it from a different angle. So I thank you for that and I thank you for reinforcing what many of us do very quietly without needing allot of goo ha ha. The Internet community is incredibly powerful and intelligence community and we really appreciate you sharing a part of you Sat. afternoon with us. And we loved to have to back
JS- Oh I loved to and thank you very much and boy I just believe that we can make a difference.
Mame- We absolutely can and I'm going give you the opportunity to bring my sidekick BJ Plasket a newspaper man from the Longmont Times from Longmont.Colorado has requested well he ask me to read the book so I'm going pass it on to him and he's going come in and do a story on you and so were going keep the ball rolling and we love Jane And we respect you for what you're doing and will have you back again
JS- Than You and have a great day!
Mame- You too Jane and take care.
Mame-Bye
JS-Bye