Retired FBI John Douglas
                    John Douglas Interview on Time & Again in January 1997
                 Jane Pauley:
                 JP: Former FBI agent with a reputation for Profiling - NBC's Cris
                 Hanson talked to him for Dateline in Jan ‘97 just over a month after
                 JonBenet's death.

                 John Douglas
                 JD: I've sat down across the table from some of the country's greatest
                 liars, in the world really, and I can sense it. Things just did not fit, the
                 crime scene - data -- just doesn't fit.

                 Cris Hanson
                 CH: Douglas was hired by Ramsey Attorneys and CH asks why they
                 hired him.

                 JD: They hired me to do an independent analysis in hopes of
                 determining who was responsible for the death of the daughter. And I
                 said, I will give you an independent analysis but you may not like what I
                 have to say.

                 CH: And that's because when he arrived here in Boulder, he
                 immediately suspected the Ramseys. Douglas was limited by authorities
                 on what evidence he could see but he was allowed in the house. He
                 was briefed on the autopsy report and he saw a photo copy of the so
                 called ransom note. Most importantly, he was given access to the
                 Ramseys. His experience told him, look very closely at the parent. His
                 25 years of groundbreaking profiling research for the FBI led to
                 important breaks in dozens of major cases. He had studied and
                 interviewed scores of serial killers. He accurately profiled the
                 unibomber years ago. And he was the inspiration for character Jack
                 Crawford in the film, ‘Silence of the Lambs'. Although the BPD is
                 releasing no information about the investigation, Douglas says it was
                 clear to him that the Ramseys were the chief suspects when he arrived.
                 For Douglas it was critically important to interview the parents.

                 How much time did you spend talking to Mr. & Mrs. Ramsey?
                 JD: About 4 or 5 hours.
                 CH - For Douglas that interview two weeks after JonBenet was found
                 murdered would be crucial in forming his opinions. To Douglas,
                 whoever committed the crime had to have intimate knowledge with the
                 Ramseys million dollar home.

                 JD: What struck me as very unusual was the bedrooms - The mothers
                 and fathers bedrooms were so far away on the third floor. Even if you
                 weren't a sound sleeper, you'd have difficulty hearing any noise on the
                 second floor because it was so far removed.

                 CH: They told Douglas they all went to bed early Christmas night
                 because they were planning to fly to their other home in Michigan the
                 next morning.

                 JD: Mr. Ramsey gets up, takes a shower. The mother gets up, goes
                 downstairs to make some coffee - goes down the spiral staircase and
                 the last step is three pages of the letter - starts reading it - doesn't know
                 what it is - then she starts screaming. Mr. Ramsey comes down and it's
                 instructions like don't contact the FBI, don't contact the police.

                 CH: But the police were called. They search the house but don't check
                 a small basement room. Hours later, a distraught John Ramsey goes to
                 the basement and discovers his daughters body.

                 JD: Everyone hears upstairs, ‘Oh God My Baby'. He grabs the child,
                 removes the duct tape, carries the child upstairs and

                 tries to resuscitate the child.
                 CH: The crime scene and JonBenet's body were now contaminated
                 because of the family's desperate efforts to help the little girl. But
                 Douglas says the parents story contain important clues.

                 JD: If a parent kills a child, they don't want to be the ones to find the
                 child. If they do a search say, in the residence, they'll get someone else
                 like ‘OK Frank you check this room, I'll be over here checking the
                 other room. The other thing you look at is how the child is left. When
                 parents kill, they usually place the child with a very very peaceful type
                 of look to it - A staged crime scene.

                 CH: Douglas says JonBenet was brutalized - she had duct tape on her
                 mouth, she suffered severe head wounds and she was strangled and
                 sexually assaulted. Douglas says the interview with the parents which
                 lasted more than four hours was what ultimately turned him around.

                 JD: I'm looking at this man, Mr. Ramsey and if you did it, you're one
                 hell of a liar. You are one hell of a liar. If he did it, he put on a great
                 production here but I just don't believe in my heart he did this. And not
                 just from what's in my heart but from the analysis of the scene.

                 CH: But, you're being paid by the Ramseys.
                 JD: Right - You can pay me for my time, you're not going to pay for my
                 opinion or jeopardize my reputation.

                 CH: Are you convinced based upon your experience that the parents
                 were not involved with the murder of JonBenet Ramsey?

                 JD: What I've seen and experienced I'd say they were not involved.
                 CH: The so-called ransom note that was left at the Ramseys home
                 demands $118,000 and we now know that a $118,000 is the amount
                 of the bonus JR was expecting that year. What does that say to you?
                 Who has this knowledge?

                 JD: The wife didn't have the knowledge, she doesn't know anything
                 about that. It's money that's electronically placed in his 401K at the end
                 of the year so to me it's kind of like the manifesto of the unibomber. If
                 you knew more about the person who's responsible - this person has a
                 very unique intimate knowledge about his financial workings therefore
                 the person would have to be somehow related to his employment.

                 CH: But Douglas remains focused on a piece of evidence that continues
                 to haunt him, the three page ransom note apparently left by the killer.

                 JD: Again, I am very prejudice by the amount of money, $118,000. Is
                 that just luck that they picked that amount, I don't think so.

                 Jane Pauley: John Douglas came to believe the Ramseys were not
                 responsible for JonBenet's death. But neither he nor anyone else has
                 ever identified any other credible suspect.

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