Espirit News Article
#1
News article found on a Ramsey bookshelf
1995-10-00: People vs profits: Esprit winners' views - October 1995

http://bcn.boulder.co.us/business/BCBR/1995/oct/esprit2.html

People vs profits: Esprit winners' views
By Caron Schwartz Ellis

A lot of very well-known business leaders say there's an entrepreneurial renaissance going on.

Folks like Tom Chappell, founder of Tom's of Maine, and Anita Roddick of The Body Shop think that a spirit of harmony, trust and cooperation is replacing the traditional rigid, competitive business climate.

Maybe it's the dawning of the Age of Aquarius, the long-awaited astrological movement expected to usher in universal harmony and understanding, sympathy and trust.

On a less cosmic note, maybe it's simply that some of the typical ways of doing business haven't been reaping the expected rewards, and that some forward-looking entrepreneurs are trying out different ways of doing things.

What do Boulder's finest entrepreneurs think? We turned to the Esprit Entrepreneur '95 winners to see if they perceive a new paradigm sweeping the business world.


Entrepreneur of Distinction John Ramsey, president and CEO of Access Graphics, sees a movement from a single vision to group dynamics.

"There's a shift from a business person where the results are individually driven and tightly controlled to one that leverages people a lot more," Ramsey says. "For any business to grow today, people are a key aspect of it, and this requires an adaptable culture."


Entrepreneurs of Distinction Mary Ellen Vernon and Thomas Vernon of Fresh Produce Sportswear agree that people are the key and focus strongly on their employees.

"Years ago, the 8-to-5 day and a shirt and tie standardized everything," Thom Vernon says. "If you were female and had kids, I don't think employers were really too concerned about that. We've broken that mold and offer much more flexibility. We realize that people have lives."

The Vernons also value employee empowerment through profit sharing. "The old way of doing things was to hire people and put them in their corner and have them do their job," Thom Vernon says. "With profit sharing everyone is going to benefit and they can see how it directly affects them."

Entrepreneur of Distinction Jeffrey Cohn, chairman of Allegro Coffee, believes the business world reflects society as a whole. For him, business is a "mixed bag."

On the one hand I see an ever-greater materialism. That's the downside," Cohn says. "The positive side is that there's a much greater growth today in trends that reflect values such as cooperation and concern for the health of society and the planet altogether."

Cohn sees both sides of the equation in Boulder County. "I see Boulder as reflecting society as a whole to a large degree, but I also see Boulder having leadership in positive ways far beyond what's proportional to simply its size. Given that quality of a highly educated population and the type of people that are attracted to Boulder for quality of life, there's a strong forward-thinking component to our population."

Entrepreneur of Distinction Phillip Wiland, chairman and chief executive officer of Concepts Direct, doesn't think the paradigm is completely new.

"Some businesses have always considered caring about people and caring about customers important," Wiland says. But he does notice a growing emphasis on their importance.

"People expect more," Wiland says. "We're more and more a service economy, and, if you want to stay in business, you'd better do what your customer wants."

Although he believes that area companies might be leading the way in developing innovative programs, Wiland does not think Boulder is unique. "I don't think you can draw a circle around Boulder County and say that inside the county they are making progress and outside they aren't," he says. "That would be excessive egotism."

Entrepreneur of Distinction Mark Crossen, president and chief executive officer of Amrion, doesn't believe that a cooperative culture exists in the business world, yet.

"Many of the universal principles of the free enterprise system will always be relevant and applicable because they originate from fundamental aspects of human nature," Crossen says. "Many of these traditions are antiquated, but I fear these antiquated practices will die a slow death because of the conservative fear of change."

Crossen does envision a company of the future with "new flexibility and responsiveness of purpose, whereby real human values are fulfilled in the course of building a successful business enterprise," he says. And, he continues, Boulder County will lead the way.

Lifetime Achievement Award winners John Hill and Carl Carman of Hill, Carman Ventures have very different perspectives.

Carman believes that business culture is becoming somewhat more focused on the individual. He ascribes this to a number of trends reducing "homogenization" of the workplace.

One is the downfall of unions. "Many companies would look at employees as a monolith of the union, which they can't do anymore," Carman says.

Another is the increasing mixing of men and women at work. "Everybody has to look at groups as individuals," he says.

But Carman doesn't believe the pendulum will swing completely. "You'll see a spectrum, but public companies will continue to be driven by the quarterly report. We expect things to be increasing quarter by quarter."

But for John Hill, the notion of a cooperative, compassionate business paradigm is "a lot of utopic wishful thinking."

"In our world of high-tech, early-stage companies, the fact of the matter is that competition is so brutally intense, it's survival of the fittest," Hill says.

"I think a lot of this mushy stuff is nice to think about, but the fact is you've got to be tough as nails to survive, and if you think otherwise, you're probably going to have some rough awakenings."

While Boulder's premier entrepreneurs agree that risk-taking is part of the entrepreneurial makeup, they differ on how risk-taking ties in with the so-called new business paradigm.

For Allegro Coffee's Cohn, entrepreneurism is more a matter of creativity than risk-taking. "I believe the entrepreneur often gravitates toward appreciating the qualities of cooperating and sharing the responsibilities and challenges of creating," he says. All of this fits the new mode.

For Wiland of Concepts Direct, the whole point of entrepreneurism is to have fun, and his idea of a good time fits the new paradigm as well. "For me, the fun of business is not so much the money that gets made, but the fun of building something," Wiland says. "I think the new thinking about caring about customers, caring about people and building teams, really all that is an important methodology for building a great organization, and that's what entrepreneurism is all about."

The new business paradigm is said to involve a shift from a regional to a global emphasis, bringing with it an increased sense of social responsibility. Boulder Esprit winners see social responsibility in different ways.

Success has to come first, insist Carman and Hill. "I always think that the best way to be socially responsible is to be successful," Carman says. "If you're in total survival mode, it's very seldom that you're very responsible.

"I think all corporations have that responsibility, but not at the expense of healthy organization," Hill continues. "It can't be at the expense of return on investment, because, if so, the enterprise won't survive."


For Thom and Mary Ellen Vernon of Fresh Produce and John Ramsey of Access Graphics, social responsibility revolves around commitment to their employees.

The Vernons acknowledge it would be easy for them lay off and rehire seasonally. But, says Thom Vernon, "we decided years ago that it's better to bite the bullet in slow times. We realize that our employees have (to pay for)rent and food, and those things aren't seasonal. It's real satisfying to see employees with the ability to buy homes and cars and things like that."

Ramsey feels "an obligation to provide employees with secure employment and the challenge and opportunity to grow not only financially but professionally," he says.

Cohn and Wiland see social responsibility as an obligation to the community.

To Cohn this has meant a strategic business decision to target a niche market -- the natural foods industry -- rather than the mass market supermarket chains. "The decision was partially going against the options to make money because it eliminated us out of the vast majority of retail food outlets," Cohn says, "but we still feel that we chose a very viable economic path. I suspect that some companies that do focus on making money don't have much sense of social responsibility."

"I believe we should care about communities," Wiland says. "Communities are made up of individuals, and I believe the best way to be socially responsible is to be responsible to everyone you have a relationship with --customers, employees, vendors, families of employees -- whoever it may be."

For Crossen, true social responsibility is still in the future. "When our business culture is filled with caring people who understand the value of serving others with our products or service, socially responsible behavior is an integral part of what we do everyday," he says. "And, this group attitude propels the company to great levels of customer/community service, which, in turn, creates greater prosperity."

Whether or not they buy the new paradigm, each Esprit Entrepreneur agrees on one thing -- the importance of business ethics. As Wiland puts it, "business ethics and personal ethics are the same thing. Be honest, tell the truth, care about other people."

Hill concurs. "Don't confuse tough business management with solid fundamental ethics," he says. "You can run a very tight ship with very tough discipline and yet be honest and ethical and fair to employees and investors on a day-to-day basis."
Reply
#2
June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (People vs. Profits - Esprit Article 1995)


0261
1 LOU SMIT: Okay. For the purposes of the tape,
2 today is Wednesday the 24th of June, 1998, and
3 it's just about a minute after nine in the
4 morning. Present in the room, and we'll just do
5 it by voice again. I'm Lou Smit, John Ramsey,
6 Bryan Morgan, David Williams and Mike Kane.
7 We left off yesterday and we were looking at
8 some photos. And I'm just going to change things
9 a little bit. We're still going to look at the
10 photos. And I'd just like to ask you John, do you
11 the (INAUDIBLE) Entrepreneurial magazine that they
12 have? You were both, I guess, (INAUDIBLE) of the
13 years?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes. It wasn't quite that
15 good.
16 LOU SMIT: Okay. Tell me a little bit
17 about that?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: It's free, right?
19 LOU SMIT: Yes.
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes, it was free. It's a
21 offshoot of the Boulder Chamber of Commerce that
22 focuses on entrepreneurs in business and privately
23 owned businesses and (INAUDIBLE). And one year I
24 was, I think, was going to be awarded Entrepreneur
25 of the station or something like that.

0262
1 And as part of that, we gave tours of our business
2 to anybody who wanted to come in. And we spoke to
3 a group. We told them about the business, what
4 made us successful, what were the issues and just
5 kind of a --
6 I think that the program is to encourage
7 entrepreneurs in business development. And so we
8 did that. I think it was in '95. I don't remember.
9 But we had there was a day when Axis (INAUDIBLE)
10 was open to the public and we had that in the
11 conference room and people came in and we talked
12 to them for an hour.
13 We got the award and it was real quick. Twenty
14 seconds, thank you.
15 LOU SMIT: Do you remember who would have
16 been present at during that time. If it wasn't a
17 large group of people?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: In the room? In the conference?
19 LOU SMIT: Yeah.
20 JOHN RAMSEY: You know what, I don't.
21 Because
22 most of them I didn't know. There was one lady who
23 approached me afterwards who was in the public
24 relations business or advertising business, and
25 she acted like, I really wanted to come and learn

0263
1 about the business.
2 So she gave me her business card. (INAUDIBLE)
3 doing a job interview; solicitation. And she
4 popped up again later. She was a little bit of
5 an odd duck, I thought. I really couldn't tell
6 you who she was.
7 And other than that, nobody really stood out in
8 my mind.
9 LOU SMIT: Were you competing with
10 anybody (INAUDIBLE)?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: For that? No, it was given
12 to three, four or five people. And there wasn't
13 any competition.


June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (People vs. Profits - Esprit Article 1995)

0265
8 it's my picture.
9 LOU SMIT: Could Patsy or would JonBenet
10 would have written that?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: No.



(SNIP)



0267
17 MIKE KANE: Excuse me. Was it in a newspaper?
18 LOU SMIT: An article in the newspaper. And
19 we wondered who wrote that article. First of all,
20 they're going to ask if you know the existence of
21 it. Then if you knew who may have written.
22 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't recognize this article.
23 All I remember was they had me put out a glossy
24 brochure that advertise the whole event. And the
25 picture was in it. I guess that only (INAUDIBLE



(SNIP)



0268
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Do you know where that was
17 found in the house?
18 LOU SMIT: I will find that out specifically.
19 This was the piece of evidence was found in --
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, that is very bizarre



(SNIP)



0269
20 LOU SMIT: I'll try to sign specifically
21 today where that was found. I had an idea where it
22 was found, but I don't want to say it because I'm
23 not sure and I'd rather (INAUDIBLE).
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Could you tell us, when
25 you've

0270
1 seen the larger photograph, could you see what
2 this scrawling is?
3 LOU SMIT: I haven't been able to make
4 that out as yet. It's kind of a scrawl.
5 JOHN RAMSEY: And I see it's inside like
6 a magazine?
7 LOU SMIT: Right. Well, it's in a folder
8 of some kind. You know like a folder that would
9 include (INAUDIBLE) books. It was just a curious
10 thing with us
. 11 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I'm extremely --



(SNIP)



0331

15 MIKE KANE: Mr. Ramsey back to that Spree
16 article, Spree Entrepreneurial. Had you ever seen
17 that article? Do you remember the first time?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: When you showed this morning.
19 MIKE KANE: So you don't know when the exact
20 publication or that issue of that organization?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't. I mean, it looked
22 like it was a publication that they put out that I
23 saw.

24 MIKE KANE: The Spree?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: The Spree, right.

0332
1 MIKE KANE: Okay. And Spree, you say, is
2 part of the Chamber of the Commerce?
3 JOHN RAMSEY: That's my understanding, yeah.

4 MIKE KANE: Okay. Do you recall when they
5 first contacted you about that?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: It seems to me it was months
7 before the event because we had to hand in some
8 background of the company. We had to agree to
9 participate and we had to put together the
10 collateral returns.
11 It seems to me it was a summer event, but I don't
12 remember that, no. It was months before. I think
13 as much as six months before.

14 MIKE KANE: They ran a photograph of --
15 Lou asked you if that could have been JonBenet's
16 handwriting and you said absolutely not. What is
17 it about that that makes you so sure?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: I mean I don't remember
19 actually saying that. But she was a child. She was
20 six years old. She didn't have particular good
21 letter formation or anything yet. And the o's here
22 and the n's are uniform n's. and the letters are
23 the same size. That's not a six year old's
24 handwriting.
25 MIKE KANE: Could (INAUDIBLE)?

0333
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Well there's a cursive "a",
2 a cursive "a" maybe. She doesn't write cursive.
3 This is bizarre. This is somebody who is sick who
4 did this.
5 MIKE KANE: What about Burke? Could he have
6 written it?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it's just the fact that
8 that is not something that Burke would do. For
9 starters, his handwriting is not very good either.
10 Those notes look to me like they're written by
11 somebody who has quite good handwriting, who can
12 consistently write. And Burke certainly, two years
13 ago wasn't -- I mean, he's gotten (INAUDIBLE) in
14 school for not having good handwriting. It
15 something he needs to work on.
Reply
#3
1999-02-18: “Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, JonBenet and the City of Boulder”
Written by Lawrence Schiller, February 18, 1999

PMPT Page 689sb

"Looking at a photograph taken near his upstairs desk, Ramsey suddenly asked, "What's that, what's that?" Pictured was a copy of a local journal, the Boulder Business Report. Clearly visible on page 1A of the October 1995 issue was a story, "People vs. Profits," that featured photographs of Mary Ellen Vernon, Jirka Rysavy, Jeffrey Kohn, and Ramsey, winners of the journal's Esprit awards. Someone had drawn a "NO" over each of the faces except Ramsey's, which had a flower design around it. Startled, Ramsey said he'd never seen that in his house. He had no way to explain it, but it was something out of the ordinary, he told the investigators. He was sure it had been brought in by a stranger. That evening the police remembered that Chris

PMPT Page 690sb

Wolf, who was a suspect at one time, had worked for the newspaper. He would have to be re-interviewed."
Reply
#4
2001-08-24: Webbsleuths Forum (http://www.webbsleuths.com)
"email from John Ramsey"


"email from John Ramsey"
Posted by jameson on Aug-24-01 at 09:17 AM (EST)

In October of 1995, John Ramsey received the Boulder County Business Report's Esprit Entrepreneur of the Year Award.

Part of the event was called "entrepreneurial encounters," "... a sit-down conversation with a chief executive officer." Participants could visit with the leaders of Alfalfas, Biostar, Audio Logic and Access Graphics.

After the murder, a newspaper article on the Espirit award was found in the house. John Ramsey was pictured there with three other men. The other three men had the word "NO" printed across them. John Ramsey's picture had a red heart or flower shape drawn on it.

Neither John nor Patsy remember saving that article (could it be a kid stashed it somewhere? I don't know.) I recently asked John about that - I can tell you some of what he told me...
.
"We did host an open house as part of a chamber of commerce program. I spoke to a group of about 40 people in a downstairs conference room. .... There were a few strange ducks in the crowd as I remember."
..
I asked him about the rumor that there was a statue of a "fat cat" in his office. He said that was not true. Just a rumor - - and a new one. I don't know who is starting these new rumors, but they are really muddying the waters and I hope they stop.

My advice to people - - if a new hate comes in with new information - - don't be quick to "believe" - - "they are out there!"



2 . "I asked"
Posted by jameson on Aug-24-01 at 09:47 AM (EST)

I was told it wasn't much of a heart - looked more like a child's large flower - - or maybe someone trying to make a heart shape with ruffled edges."



3 . "Jameson"
Posted by why_nut on Aug-24-01 at 09:49 AM (EST)

"In October of 1995, John Ramsey received the Boulder County Business Report's Esprit Entrepreneur of the Year Award."
....................................................................................................
I hope it was not John who told you that, as it would be an indicator of an increase in the failure of his memory. The Esprit Entrepreneur of the Year award for 1995 was awarded to Jirka Rysavy, Corporate Express chairman and chief executive officer.

http://www.bcbr.com/BCBR/1995/oct/jirka2.html

His business achievements, as well as his philosophies, clearly captured the attention of this year's Esprit Entrepreneur committee. They have named Jirka Rysavy, founder, chairman and chief executive officer of Broomfield-based Corporate Express Inc., Entrepreneur of Year for this month's annual Esprit Entrepreneur conference and celebration -- an annual event in Boulder since 1984.

John won the more humble Entrepreneur of Distinction award:

http://www.bcbr.com/BCBR/1995/oct/esprit2.html

which he shared with Mary Ellen Vernon and Thomas Vernon of Fresh Produce Sportswear, Jeffrey Cohn, chairman of Allegro Coffee, Phillip Wiland, chairman and chief executive officer of Concepts Direct, and Mark Crossen, president and chief executive officer of Amrion.



6 . "NoNa"
Posted by why_nut on Aug-24-01 at 10:17 AM (EST)

"I wonder if there were 'strange ducks' in the group that participated in the sit-downs with the other CEO's."
....................................................................................................
The entrepreneurial spirit practically demands that one be a "strange duck" to strike out on one's own and chart one's own business course. I do know that the "open house" was not entirely open, as one had to be a member of the Esprit conference, and one had to specifically register to attend the "open house":

http://www.bcbr.com/BCBR/1995/oct/espsked2.html

From 9 a.m. to 11 a.m. the next day, Oct. 12, Esprit participants can register for a company tour of Access Graphics, Alfalfa's Markets, Audiologic or BioStar. These Entrepreneurial Encounters allow participants to visit with the founder or chief executive officers of local entrepreneurial companies.



7 . "well"
Posted by jameson on Aug-24-01 at 10:31 AM (EST)

It did take place over a year before the murder, so I don't hold out a lot of hope for it being important, but I do hope a list of participants was compared to the suspect list - - just seems to me to be something the investigators might want to check out.



29 . "Back to the subject"
Posted by Maikai on Aug-25-01 at 09:09 AM (EST)

I think that magazine article is very relevant, and hope the police have really researched the handwriting on it, and had it compared to the ransom note--even had it analyzed for minute trace evidence....compared it to Burke's and JBR's handwriting, just in case one of them may have scribbled on it.....although, IMO, it's very strange that it matches so closely the article showed in "Ricochet," and what was written on it. I can see a little kid drawing a design around their father---but to right the word "no" on the other people in the picture????

Considering the ransom note was full of lines and ideas from other extortion movies, you have another possible clue into the intruder's psyche, if he could have been the one to leave the article.

In "Ricochet" the victim the psycho went after had appeared in the paper receiving an award. The psycho was obsessed with revenge, and after he escaped from prison to pursue his victim, they went into his jail cell, and they dumped a box out, and showed up close on the screen, the article with the victim receiving an award. Either no, or an X was on the other people in the picture, and a heart drawn around the victim's head. The markups on the Entrpreneur article are very similar to the article in Ricochet.

If in fact the article was another message to JR---then it makes it more likely there was some kind of weird revenge motive there....and someone that knew JR in some way. Where would he have gotten the article from, since it was published a year earlier? And why would he have saved it all that time?

Where exactly was in found in the house? It must have been relatively visible, for the police to notice it and take it into evidence. And if left in a visible place, it was another message to JR---just like the reference to $ll8,000 in the ransom note.
Reply
#5
June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (People vs. Profits - Esprit Article 1995)

0550
4 TOM HANEY: Okay. Next is another eight by
5 ten photo and it does not have a number but
6 maybe you can identify that.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, it looks like a --
8 John got a -- bowl, an award or something from
9 the Chamber of Commerce and this might be like a
10 program or something --
11 TOM HANEY: Okay.
12 PATSY RAMSEY: -- from there.
13 TOM HANEY: And there's some additional?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
15 TOM HANEY: -- writing on it.
16 PATSY RAMSEY: There's writing on it, no,
17 no, no, heart, and I don't know what that is. I
18 have no clue. I've never seen this. I went to
19 the event, if that is a program from there. I
20 don't understand that.
21 TOM HANEY: The writing or printing that's
22 on there --
23 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
24 TOM HANEY: -- could you describe it or do
25 you have an opinion about it?

0551
1 PATSY RAMSEY: It says no, no, no, three of
2 them, and this is John's picture and -- if you
3 do have some alternate.
4 TOM HANEY: I think we have that in
5 evidence.
6 TRIP DeMUTH: Does its look like something
7 JonBenet would do?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I can't imagine her
9 writing -- I mean, I don't think that she
10 could -- when was this? I forget what year that
11 is. '95.
12 I can't imagine her writing no, no, no
13 like that. I can't tell whether --
14 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you have a magnifying
15 glass?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: I just can't imagine. I
17 don't know where this was, if she would have
18 seen it to do such a thing, anyway.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: Can you make out the words?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: I'm trying to see if there's
21 a word there or something. I don't think
22 that -- heart, SOS -- no, no words.
23 TRIP DeMUTH: Just for the record I should
24 say that this, what we're looking at here is an
25 article of some sort that at the top says 1995,


0552
1 three hundred new words from being off her
2 (inaudible).
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I don't know. Is that
4 (inaudible)?
5 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes). Do you
6 recognize that at all?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
8 TRIP DeMUTH: Did JonBenet ever doodle like
9 that on --
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, she would doodle but
11 this is pretty -- I mean, why would she put no,
12 no, no and then -- just strange. That just
13 seems weird.
14 TRIP DeMUTH: You don't have any prior
15 memory --
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
17 TRIP DeMUTH: -- of seeing this?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
19 TRIP DeMUTH: Would Burke possibly have
20 done it?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't like that.
24 TOM HANEY: We've got the no, no, no on
25 this one and this is just we have a heart and

0553
1 then we have --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: X.
3 TOM HANEY: Or a Y.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Y?
5 TOM HANEY: Would be a Y-E-S and a heart.
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh. Oh, Y-E-S, no, no, no,
7 yes. I don't know, I have never seen this
8 before.
9 TOM HANEY: Okay. Do you recognize the
10 folder that it's in, if that is a folder?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I can't tell what that
12 is, it's -- this folder here?
13 TOM HANEY: Uh-huh (yes).
14 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No.
Reply
#6
June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (People vs. Profits - Esprit Article 1995)


0261
1 LOU SMIT: Okay. For the purposes of the tape,
2 today is Wednesday the 24th of June, 1998, and
3 it's just about a minute after nine in the
4 morning. Present in the room, and we'll just do
5 it by voice again. I'm Lou Smit, John Ramsey,
6 Bryan Morgan, David Williams and Mike Kane.
7 We left off yesterday and we were looking at
8 some photos. And I'm just going to change things
9 a little bit. We're still going to look at the
10 photos. And I'd just like to ask you John, do you
11 the (INAUDIBLE) Entrepreneurial magazine that they
12 have? You were both, I guess, (INAUDIBLE) of the
13 years?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes. It wasn't quite that
15 good.
16 LOU SMIT: Okay. Tell me a little bit
17 about that?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: It's free, right?
19 LOU SMIT: Yes.
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes, it was free. It's a
21 offshoot of the Boulder Chamber of Commerce that
22 focuses on entrepreneurs in business and privately
23 owned businesses and (INAUDIBLE). And one year I
24 was, I think, was going to be awarded Entrepreneur
25 of the station or something like that.

0262
1 And as part of that, we gave tours of our business
2 to anybody who wanted to come in. And we spoke to
3 a group. We told them about the business, what
4 made us successful, what were the issues and just
5 kind of a --
6 I think that the program is to encourage
7 entrepreneurs in business development. And so we
8 did that. I think it was in '95. I don't remember.
9 But we had there was a day when Axis (INAUDIBLE)
10 was open to the public and we had that in the
11 conference room and people came in and we talked
12 to them for an hour.
13 We got the award and it was real quick. Twenty
14 seconds, thank you.
15 LOU SMIT: Do you remember who would have
16 been present at during that time. If it wasn't a
17 large group of people?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: In the room? In the conference?
19 LOU SMIT: Yeah.
20 JOHN RAMSEY: You know what, I don't.
21 Because
22 most of them I didn't know. There was one lady who
23 approached me afterwards who was in the public
24 relations business or advertising business, and
25 she acted like, I really wanted to come and learn

0263
1 about the business.
2 So she gave me her business card. (INAUDIBLE)
3 doing a job interview; solicitation. And she
4 popped up again later. She was a little bit of
5 an odd duck, I thought. I really couldn't tell
6 you who she was.
7 And other than that, nobody really stood out in
8 my mind.
9 LOU SMIT: Were you competing with
10 anybody (INAUDIBLE)?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: For that? No, it was given
12 to three, four or five people. And there wasn't
13 any competition.


June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (People vs. Profits - Esprit Article 1995)

0265
8 it's my picture.
9 LOU SMIT: Could Patsy or would JonBenet
10 would have written that?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: No.



(SNIP)



0267
17 MIKE KANE: Excuse me. Was it in a newspaper?
18 LOU SMIT: An article in the newspaper. And
19 we wondered who wrote that article. First of all,
20 they're going to ask if you know the existence of
21 it. Then if you knew who may have written.
22 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't recognize this article.
23 All I remember was they had me put out a glossy
24 brochure that advertise the whole event. And the
25 picture was in it. I guess that only (INAUDIBLE



(SNIP)



0268
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Do you know where that was
17 found in the house?
18 LOU SMIT: I will find that out specifically.
19 This was the piece of evidence was found in --
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, that is very bizarre



(SNIP)



0269
20 LOU SMIT: I'll try to sign specifically
21 today where that was found. I had an idea where it
22 was found, but I don't want to say it because I'm
23 not sure and I'd rather (INAUDIBLE).
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Could you tell us, when
25 you've

0270
1 seen the larger photograph, could you see what
2 this scrawling is?
3 LOU SMIT: I haven't been able to make
4 that out as yet. It's kind of a scrawl.
5 JOHN RAMSEY: And I see it's inside like
6 a magazine?
7 LOU SMIT: Right. Well, it's in a folder
8 of some kind. You know like a folder that would
9 include (INAUDIBLE) books. It was just a curious
10 thing with us
. 11 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I'm extremely --



(SNIP)



0331

15 MIKE KANE: Mr. Ramsey back to that Spree
16 article, Spree Entrepreneurial. Had you ever seen
17 that article? Do you remember the first time?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: When you showed this morning.
19 MIKE KANE: So you don't know when the exact
20 publication or that issue of that organization?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't. I mean, it looked
22 like it was a publication that they put out that I
23 saw.

24 MIKE KANE: The Spree?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: The Spree, right.

0332
1 MIKE KANE: Okay. And Spree, you say, is
2 part of the Chamber of the Commerce?
3 JOHN RAMSEY: That's my understanding, yeah.

4 MIKE KANE: Okay. Do you recall when they
5 first contacted you about that?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: It seems to me it was months
7 before the event because we had to hand in some
8 background of the company. We had to agree to
9 participate and we had to put together the
10 collateral returns.
11 It seems to me it was a summer event, but I don't
12 remember that, no. It was months before. I think
13 as much as six months before.

14 MIKE KANE: They ran a photograph of --
15 Lou asked you if that could have been JonBenet's
16 handwriting and you said absolutely not. What is
17 it about that that makes you so sure?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: I mean I don't remember
19 actually saying that. But she was a child. She was
20 six years old. She didn't have particular good
21 letter formation or anything yet. And the o's here
22 and the n's are uniform n's. and the letters are
23 the same size. That's not a six year old's
24 handwriting.
25 MIKE KANE: Could (INAUDIBLE)?

0333
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Well there's a cursive "a",
2 a cursive "a" maybe. She doesn't write cursive.
3 This is bizarre. This is somebody who is sick who
4 did this.
5 MIKE KANE: What about Burke? Could he have
6 written it?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it's just the fact that
8 that is not something that Burke would do. For
9 starters, his handwriting is not very good either.
10 Those notes look to me like they're written by
11 somebody who has quite good handwriting, who can
12 consistently write. And Burke certainly, two years
13 ago wasn't -- I mean, he's gotten (INAUDIBLE) in
14 school for not having good handwriting. It
15 something he needs to work on.
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#7
Description of the article on page 8 of 25 Photo Number Sort files with Photo Descriptions.

BPD photo #15-JRB Category listed as Newspaper article

This photo appears to be a print from a photo. It is also marked on the back as 23-12. The photograph depicts a newspaper type article containing the headline of "1995 Espirit Entrepreneurs on being Entrepreneurial". It then has 4 photographs. On the photographs, a "no" is written on the foreheads of each of the three other participants, and the word "yes" is written across the face of John Ramsey. His photograph is located on the lower right hand side of the four photos. Above his photograph is either "heart to hearts" and the hearts are drawn as heart shapes, or it is two hearts, with a yes written above the photograph. The word "yes" is also written across John Ramsey's face, and his head has been crudely outlined with the same marking pen used on the rest of the handwriting contained on this newspaper. The paper was apparently folded and placed inside a magazine or brochure.
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