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  Isabel Celis
Posted by: jameson245 - 04-04-2017, 03:35 PM - Forum: OTHER children taken from their beds - No Replies

The body of 6 year old Isabel Celis was found 5 years after being taken from her Arizona bed.
April, 2017

 6-year-old Isabel Celis - taken from her bed in Tucson, Arizona,
police found her remains in a remote area
DNA analysis did confirm that the remains were those of Isabel Celis

[Image: e8e09088a697e05bd7a747b6b2bf6de6]
Isabel was last seen by her family about 11 p.m. on Friday, April 20, 2012.

Her father discovered that she was missing at 8 a.m. the next morning - a broken screen was found in her bedroom.

In that case, the police did go to the media with some case against the parents but said
“We’re labeling it as suspicious circumstances and a possible abduction.”

In the statement after confirming Isabel’s death, Tucson police said they “will continue to actively pursue those responsible for any involvement in Isabel’s disappearance and death, and will pursue prosecution to the highest level possible.”
Officials will not be releasing further details at this time since that “could have unintended consequences,” police said.
“As we move forward in our investigation, we will release additional details as they become available.”

Tucson police are still asking anyone with information about this case to please call 88-CRIME. Tips can be anonymous.
While confirmation of Isabel’s death “may provide some degree of closure,” the police statement reads, “this also sadly ends the hope of bringing Isabel home safely to her family.”

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  and some newer ones
Posted by: jameson245 - 04-04-2017, 11:54 AM - Forum: Questions FOR Borg - Replies (1)

Jinks Obs wrote - "If my theory serves me right..then     There's dna of Hispanic. African-American native American and caucasian. The cover up of this crime is beyond heinous    Sorry to tell you this idis but the ramseys are definitely involved. They could have told the truth but decided not too. So apparently they want to be up shits creek without a paddle."

So, everyone has the right to have a theory - and I clearly think Jimks is off. 

I have not seen any report that indicates there is DNA from African American or Native American - - but I clearly don't have every bit of evidence out there - - so my question to Jinks is this - - -

Can you tell us the source of this information and make a real case against any member of the family?  I ask because I see a HUGE list of exculpatory evidence and think you are making this stuff up as you go along.

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  For Pam and Evelyn
Posted by: jameson245 - 04-03-2017, 12:49 PM - Forum: Answering BORG questions - Replies (3)

No, I am not interested in entering a private chat with either of you as BORG tends to edit then share.  So I will answer here.

A healthy person maintains control over themselves and doesn't feel a great need to force themselves on others, to be in control of others.    A psychopath can't be happy with controlling hirself - - hir has to control others.  In some circumstances, simple control is not enough, they have to HURT the other person. Sadistic psychopaths can hurt others financially, emotionally, physically... it brings them joy to know they caused that pain.

Are ALL of them totally unhappy all the time?  No, but even a period of time in their lives could have set up a habit that just feels good to them.

(Pam, I don't know if they like pain during sex but suspect your good friend Laurence might help you with that one.)

Since my energy in this case is spent educating people to the truth, encouraging those entrusted to solving this to do better, trying to raise funds to help advance the DNA investigation - - - - - and I am NOT trying to hurt ANYONE while I do that - - I don't think I am at all the same as those who have total disregard for the facts and just go about trying to hurt the efforts of others to see this solved.

Am I calling YOU a psychopath?  Nope.  I have my questions but honestly don't care enough about either of you, or the others, to take my focus off the case - - that trumps all beyond my family.

Going to be hard to copy and paste this and change it.  But feel free to copy and pasts as it is.  I have no problem with that.  Hope I answered your question.  No private chats.

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  LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Summer Dawn - 04-01-2017, 09:40 AM - Forum: Absolutely insane posts - mostly by BORG - Replies (2)

[–]Debbiecass34 2 points 15 hours ago 
Susan one of the donations made on the go fund me is denying she made the donation she didn't donate and is claiming her name is being used her profile etc. She did go to school with Burke but that's the full extent of it."


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Posted by: Summer Dawn - 04-01-2017, 09:38 AM - Forum: GO FUND ME - a way anyone can help - Replies (2)

This go fund me has caused a lot of  "controversy " and has multiple people reporting it daily ( get a life, period).
Sad this is causing controversy....

Take a minute and realize something.

Go fund me will ALWAYS investigate fraud claims with EVERY go fund me account that is reported as fraud.

Go fund me will NOT hesitate to remove a campaign if they found it to be fraud. 

The go fund me is still ACTIVE BECAUSE ITS NOT FRAUD!!!!!!!!! SIMPLE AS THAT!!!
 Time is precious... use your time to do something  PRODUCTIVE instead of WASTING YOUR TIME REPORTING THIS ACCOUNT!!!

We ALL know the case  was BOTCHED from the very beginning... critical evidence was contaminated..  

LE was able to get VERY important DNA evidence...

GSLD99178617...... That may be letters and numbers just to you..


Wouldnt you want JonBenet to receive Justice?? SHE DESERVES IT!!

People tend to forget this was a little girl who was BRUTALLY murdered. She was a beautiful girl who was FULL Of life. Her life was cut too short. We owe it to JonBenet. 

MILLIONS of people were captivated by this tragic murder.

This is YOUR time to help find justice.

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  "Detective Andrew"
Posted by: Summer Dawn - 04-01-2017, 09:00 AM - Forum: Absolutely insane posts - mostly by BORG - Replies (1)

The Killer of JonBenet Ramsey - revealed

Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused Confused


Colorado allows the death penalty as an option in the following cases:
first-degree murder
kidnapping resulting in the death of the victim
felony murder 

The sentence is death by lethal injection.
Minimum age for death penalty: 18
Colorado forbids the execution of the mentally retarded.
Executions 1930-1976: 47
Executions since 1977: 1

On the Thursday morning of December 26, 1996, Fleet White left his home on 733 15th street, Boulder, carrying a cute Santa Claus teddy bear for the daughter of his neighbor - and friend - John Ramsey. He wore new previously unworn winter clothes - including boots and gloves - that he'd purchased months before. He travelled down the alleyway that runs down 15th Street until he came to 755 - the Ramsey home. Fleet produced a key. It was a key he'd had cut from one of the keys to the Ramsey residence months before. He entered the house and walked straight down the hall to the spiral staircase. JonBenet was expecting a special visit from Santa Claus after Christmas, and Fleet was keeping the promise. Upon reaching the second floor, Fleet hesitated and listened - silence. The Ramseys were sound asleep after a hectic day of visits, parties hyper-excited kids and gift-swapping. John and Patsy had to rise early for the trip to Michigan, so they had to get some shut eye. In fact, the entire year had been quite hectic. Super-entrepreneur John had made a billion dollars for his company Access Graphics, earning him the nickname "Billion Dollar Johnny". That was bad enough for "oilman" Fleet, who had once been the only fat cat in the neighborhood, even though his fortune was not what he made it out to be - but that's another story. Fleet hated John's guts. He despised John's perfect family. Patsy Ramsey summed up all the things that Fleet White detested when she innocently circulated the Ramsey Family's 1996 Christmas Newsletter: "Burke is a busy fourth grader where he really shines in math and spelling. He played flag football this fall and is currently on a basketball binge! His little league team was #1…JonBenet is enjoying her first year in 'real school'. Kindergarten in the Core Knowledge program is fast paced and five full days a week. She has already been moved ahead to first grade math. She continues to enjoy participating in talent and modelling pageants. She was named "America's Royale Tiny Miss" last summer and is Colorado's Little Miss Christmas. Her teacher says she is so outgoing that she will never have trouble delivering an oral book report!"
That newsletter went on to laud John Ramsey: "John is always on the go travelling hither and yon. Access recently celebrated its one billion $$ mark in sales, so he's pretty happy! He and his crew were underway in the Port Huron to Mackinac Island yacht race in July, but had to pull out mid way due to lack of wind. (Can you believe that?) But, his real love is the new 'old looking' boat, Grand Season, which he spent months designing."
Fleet turns the doorhandle of JonBenet's bedroom. He walks over to JonBenet, who is sleeping, and gently rouses her. She wakes and in the half-shadows, she isn't sure if it's her mom or dad at first. Fleet mutters to her, and she recognises his voice, but she is still tired and groggy. Had the man in her bedroom been an unfamiliar intruder, the little girl would have screamed, but she trusts Fleet, the father of her best friend Daphne. She had only been at his house hours before. Fleet shows her the Santa Teddy, and then takes her out the bed and gets her dressing gown. He tells Jonbenet to put it on, and she wearily does. He then takes a blanket and wraps her in it, because he is taking her out of the house. It's cold outside in the glacial December night air. She is not going to the basement yet.
The Santa Teddy is left behind on the bed. Had any of the Ramseys come upon Fleet in the house, he would only have to say that he had brought JonBenet a little Santa Teddy Bear and it would have been seen by the Ramseys as a cute gesture. Fleet takes JonBenet out the house, to return to his home the same way he came. As he carries the girl along, the local branches and bushes skirt against her ankles and achilles tendon area and leave small abrasive marks - marks that are later documented by Dr Meyer during the autopsy of JonBenet.
The next segment of this account of the murder of JonBent has been withheld for the time being, because I do not want to reveal certain important details it contains. Should Subpoena-phobic Fleet White decide to face me in court, I will reveal these key details and deal the ace up my sleeve which will either put him behind bars for life or result in him being sentenced to death.
Fleet killed JonBenet at 733 15th street, and at one point during the slow torture, he hung her up by the nylon cord which bound her wrists - but with enough slack to be hung over two hooks. The unexpected happened when the girl wet herself through sheer fear as she was being garrotted. By then, Fleet had unhooked JonBenet, and the girl clawed at the ever-tightening cord around her neck, leaving the tell-tale crescent fingernail marks on the skin of her neck.
The sudden urination threw a spanner in the works. Fleet's intentions for killing the girl were to make it look as if she had been killed in the basement of her own home. But if she had been killed there, there'd be a pool of urine on the cellar floor there, and of course, her own panties would have been still moist - but the cellar floor was bone dry - and so was JonBenet's bed. Fleet wiped the urine from the girl's thigh area and put on the dry panties marked 'Wednesday' - these were not JonBenet's panties. Had Fleet left on the wet panties and put her in the Ramsey cellar, the forensic experts would have smelled a rat. Wet panties and a bone dry cellar floor without a trace of uric acid.
Fleet re-dresses the child after removing one of the wrist ligature loops so that he can get her arms into the top. It is a hurried affair, and that is why JonBenet was described as being dressed 'oddly' when she was found. 
Fleet wraps the girl up in the nightgown and blanket and leaves the house with a number of items. He takes the body back into the Ramsey house and goes down to the train room. The second spanner is thrown in the works. The thing that thwarts his harebrained scheme this time is a suitcase which is smaller than he thought. Fleet tried to put JonBenet's body in the blue suitcase that had been lying in the Ramsey trainroom but it wouldn't close. That is why fibers found in the suitcase match the fibers of JonBenet's clothes.
Fleet takes the body into the wine cellar and lays her down. She is wrapped in a blanket and left with her favorite pink nightgown next to her.
At this point Fleet has made a third mishap. He took one of Patsy Ramsey's paintbrushes days earlier, and snapped it into three pieces. The midsection was used to make the garrotte handle, and the brush end - and splinters - were to be placed in Patsy's paints tray just outside the wine cellar, but the third piece of the paintbrush was mislaid. Fleet probably lost this in his own home, when he was making his garrotte. However, he had brought the brush end of the broken paintbrush back to the Ramsey household, and had diligently placed it in Patsy's paints tray - to make it look as if the killer had created the garrotte on the premises of 755 15th Street. 
Fleet leaves the basement area, closing the doors behind him, and he takes four A4 pieces of paper from an envelope held inside of his coat. The three sheets which form the ransom demand are placed on the bottom step of the spiral staircase, and another page - the so-called 'practice note' - is placed in another part of the house. Fleet is known to have borrowed Patsy's legal pad on several occasions. Fleet tore out a number of pages from that pad many days before, and, using samples of Patsy Ramsey's handwriting to guide him, he writes the Ransom demand and practice note, but he made six glaring errors which prove he is the author. I will reveal these errors when I face Fleet in court - if he dares to show of course.
Now we come to the famous four letters "S.B.T.C" - which does not stand for Subic Bay Training Center or Scarred by The Cancer, or Saved By The Cross or Some Body That Cares. It actually stands for Small Business Technology Coalition, a Government body which allocates funds to developing businesses. You will find more about SBTC at Owen Research, 2525 Arapahoe Avenue, E4-262, Boulder CO 80302. Ask Robert Owen about SBTC. Fleet White mistakenly thought that John Ramsey had at one time siphoned off money from the SBTC to fund Access Graphics. To create an atmosphere of suspicion in John's mind, Fleet deliberately asked for $118,000 as the ransom amount to make him think that the note was the work of someone very close to him. John's Christmas bonus had been $118,000, so only an employee at Access Graphics or his own wife would know the significance of that amount of dollars.
Fleet White leaves the Ramsey's home, and, before he travels the relatively short distance home, he adds the finishing touch - and makes another mistake. He kneels by the grid covering the basement window, and he lifts it, then lowers it, just to disturb the dirt and dry leaves. Just to make it look as if some intruder has entered or exited through the basement window. The cobwebs aren't even broken on one side though, and the foliage on one side is undisturbed. It is a classic Fleet White howler. He checks the site of JonBenet's murder when he arrives home and cleans up, then he burns the clothes he wore and burns other certain items.
Fleet goes to bed. If everything goes to plan, John Ramsey should come down the spiral staircase in the morning, and, he should come upon the bogus ransom note. That is why the note is addressed to Mister Ramsey. Using that good southern common sense of his, he should do as the ransom note says - to the letter. Then of course, the kidnapper will never call after a day has gone by, because the kidnapper does state in the note that he will call 'tomorrow' between 8 and 10 am. The kidnapper does not mean today, because he advises John to be rested. John would have sat and waited it out. Imagine what the Boulder Police would have thought then. The pilot arrives at the Ramsey residence and John tells him the trip to Michigan has been postponed. He can't say why, because the kidnapper has stated he has the place under surveillance. The pilot thinks John and Patsy are acting strange. Fleet would be able to call at the house to exhibit his well-rehearsed concern about John still being at the house when he is supposed to be in Michigan. Fleet would say, 'John, where's JonBenet? What's wrong?'
The police would be tipped off, and when the house is ultimately searched, JonBenet's body would be found, stiff with rigor mortis. The Ramseys story would look very dubious indeed, because Fleet has created so many 'clues' to point the finger of suspicion firmly at the Ramseys.
However, Patsy happens to find the ransom notes, and she panics. The Ramseys don't do what the letter says. They call the police. They call Fleet White, and as soon as he hears that phone ring in his bedroom that morning, he knows things haven't gone to plan yet again. 
All of the above explains the following mysterious incident, detailed in the Ramsey Book, Death Of Innocence: Patsy Ramsey relates that: "During the party Fleet White used our phone to make a series of calls, trying to get some medicine to his mother in a hospital in Aspen, Colorado. Apparently he dialed wrong and got 911. The Police called back, but after checking with Fleet and the rest of the people at the house, Susan Stine informed them that the call was a mistake."
The telephone number to the Aspen hospital bears no similarity to the most well known number in North America: 911. Fleet made this call to discover the police response time: how long a patrol car would take to arrive at 15th Street during the festive season. This X period of time would give Fleet a rough idea of how long he would have to make his escape should (a) A neighbour spot him skulking down the alleyway and call the police on the murder night, and (b) should John or Patsy call the police after being awakened by Fleet the intruder.
After the discovery of the body of JonBenet, Fleet's behaviour speaks volumes about his guilt.Despite being a pallbearer in JonBenét's funeral, he confronted the Ramseys - in their hour of need - shortly afterwards at the Paugh's home and almost comes to blows with John. He alleges to be concerned about the way he perceives the Ramseys to be reacting to the murder and says they are not co-operating with the investigation. The latter is hypocritical, considering Fleet's recent refusal to appear in court over a minor matter relating to the murder case. Fleet was so terrified of appearing in court, he spent a month in jail for ignoring the subpoena rather than risk putting himself on the stand. In his paranoid mind, he believes that if he were to appear in a court, some lawyer would catch him out.
In early December 1997, the Ramseys took up on a touching idea from their friends; to hold a remembrance service for JonBenet. As JonBenet had attended preschool at the First Presbyterian Church, that congregation was seen as the ideal place to hold the service. The ministers agreed that the remembrance service would be a touching tribute, and everyone who attended the church said the same - except two people. Fleet and Priscilla White - who also attended the First Presbyterian - protested. For reasons that were never made clear, the Whites demanded that the church should pull out of the service. So, the service for the murdered child was held instead at the First United Methodist Church. Fleet obviously couldn't face the prospect of attending a service for the victim of the person he had murdered.
In April 1997, Fleet demanded to be removed from the list of suspects in the JonBenet murder case. Steve Thomas later claimed Fleet White was cleared - but he didn't say why and the fact is that there was no official statement clearing him. Fleet was desperate to be cleared because weeks before on February 13 1997, Boulder County District Attorney Alex Hunter threatened to seek the death penalty in JonBenét's murder.
Fleet's antics then escalate. In January 1998, Fleet and his wife submit a 2,000-word letter to the Daily Camera, calling upon the then-Governor Roy Romer to remove District Attorney Alex Hunter from the murder investigation. The Fleets claim that Hunter's actions during the past year had "created the strong appearance of impropriety, professional incompetence and a lack of objectivity."
Romer refused the request. This means that Fleet will be the second person in Colorado since 1977 to die by lethal injection should he be named as the murderer.
There were more subsequent moves by White to remove Hunter - but Fleet was unsuccessful.
Now read this extract from The Death of Innocence the Ramseys official book about their experiences before and after the murder of JonBenet:
Quote:Five days later, and just two days after Steve Thomas's resignation, Fleet White - the friend who had been with me when I found JonBenet's body on December 26, 1996 - sent a fourteen-page, rambling letter to "the people of Colorado" and to Governor Roy Romer, asking him to remove District Attorney Alex Hunter from JonBenet's case. White claimed that various relationships between the Boulder County district attorney and the legal community (our attorneys, specifically) may have impaired the objectivity of the DA. He also cited the atmosphere of distrust and noncooperation between the district attorney and the Boulder police. Finally, he said that Hunter had been criticized in the past for not being an aggressive prosecutor of homicide cases.
A few people spoke out about this letter. For instance, in an interview with the Boulder Daily Camera, Colorado University Professor of Legal Ethics Dan Vigil said the relationship between Hunter and our attorneys, mentioned in White's letter, was inconsequential because "in a legal community this size, people are going to interact."
Then, on August 20 Governor Romer's spokesman, Jim Carpenter said that the governor saw nothing in Fleet White's letter that would lead him to change his mind.
Fleet White had tried to get Romer to replace Hunter on December 18, 1997, and when his request was rejected, White had sent an earlier letter to the Boulder Daily Camera, making many of the same allegations as his present letter.
Why was White so adamant about ousting District Attorney Alex Hunter? Chuck Green had given one theory in a Denver Post article back on January 16. "Her death and the year-long investigation had become a daily obsession for the Whites, according to friends," Green said, "and they are determined to follow every twist and turn to its conclusion. It was primarily that preoccupation with the murder case that caused them to ask Governor Roy Romer to personally intervene with the investigation by replacing Boulder District Attorney with a special prosecutor. But there was a lingering animosity toward Hunter's office, sources said, that helped fuel the Whites' anger."
Green went on to explain that in the summer of 1997 the Whites had asked to be "publicly cleared as potential suspects in the case, demanding that Police Chief Tom Koby issue a statement of exoneration." The DA had advised the police "to limit the statement to the current status of their case." White, Green's sources said, resented this.
Still, Fleet White's protests continued. On Monday, August 24, White wrote another letter to "the people of Colorado," this time suggesting that Lt. Governor Gail Schoettler had influenced the governor's decision. White said that Schoettler's husband had made several telephone calls to me [John Ramsey] in the days after JonBenet's murder. Yes, he had, although I never received any of them. As a former fraternity brother at Michigan State University, Don Stevens (Schoettler's husband) had called to offer his condolences and to inquire about funeral arrangements.
Lt. Governor Gail Schoettler replied to this accusation in an interview with the Boulder Daily Camera, "The governor and I have never discussed this case," she said.
The Whites were apparently trying to show that the Democratic "family" had somehow closed ranks to protect us. It was absurd and a bit mad. Plus, I was never an active Democrat.
On August 20, 1998, the Whites commented to a Camera staff reporter, "The district attorney and the Ramsey attorneys have simutaneously rebuked the police for 'focusing' their investigation on the Ramseys in fact the police were simply following evidence."
The innuendo here was obvious. Why had our former friend turned against us?
As Patsy and I thought thought about this, we went back to the days right after the murder. On December 26, 1996, the police had naturally asked me a lot of questions. I learned that the officers had interrogated Fleet for a long time on the twenty-seventh. I had no idea what was said, but after this session, Fleet returned upset and confused. Suddenly this close friend became tense and acted very strange.
As was the case with most of our social friendships, Patsy had met Priscilla and her children first. Their kids were almost the same ages as JonBenet and Burke. Later Fleet and I were introduced into an already blooming friendship. When we first met, they were renting a small house, two doors up the street from us. The Whites told us that they had left California because they felt the fast life around Newport Beach was a poor place to raise children. They had originally thought of moving to Aspen, where Fleet's parents had a home and where Fleet and Priscilla and their children had spent considerable time. But even Aspen didn't suit what they were looking for. Ultimately they settled in Boulder after Fleet drove there one day and decided it was the perfect community for them. Our children became instant friends and enjoyed frequent trips to and from each other's houses, which they could accomplish on their own with complete freedom, via backyards or front sidewalks.
Priscilla was a fun-loving California girl who liked to entertain and had good sense of humor. She and Patsy had quickly hit it off, and they enjoyed each other's company. The moms soon discovered that Fleet and I shared a penchant for sailing, as well. It's rare that dads and moms and both children synchronize so easily. Both sets of parents were older, and that added to the similarities.
The newspapers later would refer to Fleet as an oil magnate.His father, Fleet White Sr., was reported to have had a natural gas drilling company in California. He may have worked for his dad for a period of time before coming to Colorado, but as far as I know, Fleet did not work at a steady job during the time I knew him in Boulder. At one point he was trying to help his dad clean up some environmental issues at a gas station they owned in California, and he spoke of trying to get something started with some Denver businessman.
Fleet was mainly my sailing buddy. He occasionally talked of being an ardent sailor in the Newport Beach area and proudly displayed many models of the sailboats he had raced. He spoke of a silver loving cup, which bears his name and is on permanent display at the Newport Beach Yacht Club. He was a very experienced sailor. I was not. I could learn a great deal from him. Whenever we were together, sailing was our singular topic of conversation. Since he didn't have a nine-to-five job as I did, Fleet was free to be the one coordinator of logistics for our sailing ventures.
After JonBenet's murder, the Whites had arrived in Atlanta for Jonbenet's funeral the day after we did. They were scheduled to stay at Rod Westmoreland's home. Each of our Atlanta friends had graciously adopted a family from Colorado to host during the funeral. As an unspoken courtesy, our closest friends in Atlanta were to host the Whites, our closes friends from Colorado. For some reason, shortly after the Whites arrived at the Westmorelands', Priscilla got into a tiff with Rod's wife, Kimberly, and refused to stay in the Westmoreland's lovely home. The Whites said they would check into a hotel instead.
When I heard what had happened, I attributed the incident to the fact that everyone was distraught, tired and easily upset. I assumed they must have had reason to be on edge, and I mistakenly thought everything would subside.
As is customary in the South, the Westmorelands hosted a brunch in their home immediately following JonBenet's funeral for family, friends, and children. Apparently the Whites interpreted this gracious act as a horrible display of opulence and ostentation. In Whites' view, the Westmorelands were acting totally in bad taste, a view which was not shared by any other friends in attendance.
Eventually, Patsy and I suggested that the Whites stay at my brother's house. We didn't know what had happened at the Westmorelands', but we didn't want them staying in a motel. After all was said and done, they were our good friends and my brother, Jeff, is probably the most calm and under control person I know. Suggesting the Whites stay there was the logical thing to do. Unfortunately, nothing worked out there either.
Following the funeral Jeff remembers giving the Whites a ride to the Westmorelands' for the reception, and afterward, bringing them back to his own home. Fleet began complaining about the Westmorelands' home being in an exclusive area of Atlanta. Priscilla apparently was offended that the family had a maid. They persisted with these demeaning statements and ridiculed the Westmorelands' lifestyle. Fleet and Priscilla left Jeff's for a walk around the neighborhood.
When they returned, Fleet had become even more upset and kept talking about the need to keep "outsiders" from getting in on the investigation. He was rambling on and on, saying things like "We can't hurt the reputation of the people of Boulder...JonBenet is gone, we have to protect Boulder now...One hundred years ago people on farms took care of themselves. They didn't need cops or lawyers." His behavior seemed irrational to Jeff.
In short order, Fleet became more and more animated. He was periodically jabbing Jeff in the chest with his index finger and putting his hands on Jeff's neck. Jeff thought Fleet was on the verge of being out of control.
"How many people have you made really, really mad at you?" Fleet said, very agitated. "Ten or twelve maybe?"
"No, I don't think so," Jeff said, trying to remain calm.
Fleet continued pressing. "How many people have you made mad enough to want to kill you, or a member of your family? Two or three?"
"No," Jeff responded. He didn't know how anyone could think that way.
But the altercation didn't go away. Fleet's behavior seemed so unreasonable and out of place that it was frightening. Even though Jeff, who had been a high school quarterback, was perfectly capable of defending himself, Fleet scared him. Fleet and Priscilla left Jeff's home to talk to me, and Jeff decided that without a doubt he didn't want the Whites staying in his house that night.
Later that day at the Paughs' house, Priscilla sat me down and told me that she had talked to the police for hours. Then she abruptly said that there was semen found on JonBenet's body. I was so shocked. I couldn't speak. I just walked away. That urban legend was later proven untrue.
Before the Whites left for Atlanta, Priscilla called Patsy's father on the phone from the airport and argued with Don that she knew things that nobody else knew, telling him that he must persuade Patsy and me not to get attorneys. With that Priscilla hung up the telephone, and she and Fleet flew back to Boulder.
After we returned to Boulder, we experienced another strange incident involving the Whites. Patsy and I had been meeting with Father Rol Hoverstock in his office at St. John's and were in prayer with him when we heard a commotion outside. Fleet White pushed past both Patsy's father, who was waiting for us in the reception area, and Father Rol's secretary, demanding entrance to his office. Fleet barged in, unannounced, and dropped down on one knee, flashing a reporter's business card in the air.
"Now they're after me John!" Fleet shouted at me. "You know what I have to do, John." He looked crazed and shaken.
Father Rol kept trying to calm him down.
"What is it Fleet?" I reached out for the card. "Let me see it."
He kept waving the card but finally gave it to me. I looked on the back and realized that a reporter had scribbled a question about who had removed the tape from JonBenet's mouth. Was it Fleet or was it John? she had asked. Fleet kept yelling at us, as if Patsy and I had some sort of command over the media. I told him not to pay any attention to the press and offered to take the card and have one of our investigators call the reporter. Fleet said, "No, I'll take care of this in my own way."
What can I say? Fleet and I never had friction in our friendship prior to JonBenet's death. Clearly, something happened to the Whites between the time they were with us on the morning of December 26 in Boulder and when they arrived in Atlanta.
John Ramsey makes a curious comment that seems to hint at Fleet's guilt. When asked about the killer's nylon cord, John allegedly says: "It's not mine. Fleet White knows about cords, lines, and sailing."
So how about the duct tape? John replies: "Fleet had some special tapes, possibly black duct tape."
And it's true what John says. Amateur sailor Fleet White can tie elaborate knots, and he knows all about the handling of cords, and he does have special duct tape.
Fleet now has to answer to me, Keith Andrews. Then he has to answer to God for taking the life of a loveable 6-year-old girl who had so much to live for, and for putting her parents and brother through six years of sheer Hell.

©Keith Andrews 2002

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  for Sara Osborne
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-31-2017, 04:30 PM - Forum: Answering BORG questions - Replies (4)

who wanted to know why I thought something.  I am sharing a post I did NOT make that should say it all.  It is an old post from

http://www.re-newsit.com/2013/12/tricia-griffiths-counter-petition-to.html[Image: blank.gif]

  1. AnonymousJanuary 17, 2015 at 8:51 PM
  2. Websleuths used to be a wonderful place for people to try to help and figure out responsible parties for murders and where missing people could be. More recently, Trisha's success with the radio show and website has resulted in arrogance and mis-use of power. The moderators of the site used to have respect and common courtesy for their members while they enforced terms of service (TOS) for legal reasons. Now, moderators act like hall monitors, using the perceived power they have over the forums to be punitive, hostile and disrespectful of their users. Going online to WS is like asking for an adrenaline rush as users are accused of and punished for perceived violations of TOS by the mods. You will find emails in your personal email inbox from mods attacking, flaming and accusing you of doing something wrong, as if being a member makes you part of a cult where you relinquish your right to respect and common courtesy. They "yell" at users like angry camp counselors and think their power to put a user a "time out", like a child, gives them the right to be rude and disrespectful, accosting and punishing their members if they step out of line. Meanwhile, what is considered out of bounds for discussion is vague and unclear, setting up their members to enter forbidden territory, and using it as an opportunity to attack them. It's extra negativity that any healthy adult doesn't need added to their lives.

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  legal issues
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-30-2017, 07:23 PM - Forum: How to solve this mystery - No Replies

stop making deals with sex offenders that include them not having their DNA entered into CODIS

The Effect of DNA Databases on Plea Bargaining. (May 2014)
Sarah Kathleen Armstrong Department of Economics Texas A&M University
Research Advisor: Dr. Jonathon Meer Department of Economics
Plea bargaining is a defining characteristic of the United States criminal justice system;
according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 95% of the 1,079,000 felons convicted in state
courts during 2004 pleaded guilty rather than face jury by trail.1 Despite the prominence of plea
negotiations in the American judiciary, the implications of this process have not been subject to
analysis that sufficiently matches its importance. Meanwhile, the increasing use of high-tech law
enforcement tools like DNA databases, which increase the probability that repeat offenders are
caught for their crimes, affect parties’ relative bargaining power and incentives. Most
importantly, defendants have an incentive to negotiate lesser charges in order to avoid being
added to their state’s DNA database, in exchange for longer sentences. We examine whether the
introduction and expansion of DNA databases across the United States have affected plea
bargaining by defendants. We use difference-in-differences analysis and State Court Process
(SCP) data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics, which is collected every two years and tracks
felony cases from charging by prosecutors until final disposition. We test for the impact of DNA
database expansions on the likelihood of pleading guilty to a crime, the likelihood of charge
bargaining, and other sentencing outcomes. Estimates provide evidence that database eligible
offenders are more likely to accept charge bargains and less likely to accept sentence bargains

relative to defendants that do not face database collection, indicating that plea bargaining may
help parties involved in plea negotiations to assist offenders in avoiding DNA database

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  Stratbucker removed as witness
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-29-2017, 05:10 PM - Forum: Stun Gun - No Replies

He ws removed as a witness in the wolf case - for good reason.  I am posting that bit here but you really should
read his deposition - it is under discredited or discounted witnesses along with Gideon Epstein and Cina Wong.

2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Counsel, we are
3 back on the record at 12:47 p.m.
4 MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you very much.
5 I am going to address this, of course, to Lin
6 Wood and to Jim Rawls because they represent the
7 counsel for John and Patsy Ramsey. And I
8 certainly acknowledge Mr. Bauer's important role
9 in the case.
10 Let me take an opportunity to --
11 MR. WOOD: Hey, Darnay, don't --
12 MR. HOFFMAN: -- due to the
13 testimony of the deposition today and to
14 consider not only the witness but also the
15 testimony from the witness and looking at it in
16 relation to my theory of the case, I have
17 decided at this point to withdraw Dr. Robert
18 Stratbucker as an expert witness in this
19 particular case with the understanding, of
20 course, that this testimony, of course, can be
21 sealed if counsel for the defense would like
22 that and there will certainly be no either
23 public reference to any of Dr. Stratbucker's
24 theories to this Rule 26 report, to any of the
25 things that he stated today, any conversations
1 he may have had with me formally or informally,
2 or any other communication involving his theory
3 of whether or not stun gun -- a stun gun was
4 used on JonBenet Ramsey.

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  Robert Stratbucker
Posted by: jameson245 - 03-29-2017, 04:50 PM - Forum: Discredited and discounted witnesses in this case - Replies (3)

4 Plaintiff,
6 NO. 00-CIV-1187(JEC)
8 Defendants.
13 May 30, 2002
11:02 a.m.
1025 Howard Street
15 Omaha, Nebraska
Alexander J. Gallo, CCR-B-1332, CRR
2 On behalf of the Plaintiff:
3 (via telephonic means)
5 Law Offices of Darnay Hoffman
6 Suite 209
7 210 West 70th Street
8 New York, New York 10023
9 (212) 712-2766
10 On behalf of the Defendants:
13 Powell, Goldstein, Frazer & Murphy, L.L.P.
14 Sixteenth Floor
15 191 Peachtree Street, N.E.
16 Atlanta, Georgia 30303
17 (404) 572-6600
18 L. LIN WOOD, Esq.
20 L. Lin Wood, P.C.
21 2140 The Equitable Building
22 100 Peachtree Street
23 Atlanta, Georgia 30303
24 (404) 522-1713
25 Also Present: J. Rollins, Videographer
1 Deposition Robert A. Stratbucker, M.D.
2 May 30, 2002
3 (Defendants' Exhibit-1, Exhibit-2 and
4 Exhibit-3 were marked for identification.)
6 beginning of videotape No. 1 of the deposition
7 of Robert A. Stratbucker, M.D., M.S., Ph.D.,
8 P.E., being taken on May 30 of the year 2002
9 in Omaha, Nebraska.
10 Counsel will now introduce themselves.
11 MR. WOOD: My name is Lin Wood. I
12 am one of the attorneys for the defendants John
13 and Patsy Ramsey. With me from my office is
14 Matthew Wood, legal assistant.
15 Go ahead, Derek.
16 MR. BAUER: Derek Bauer with the law
17 offices of Powell, Goldstein, Frazer & Murphy in
18 Atlanta, also on behalf of Patsy and John
19 Ramsey.
20 MR. RAWLS: Jim Rawls from Powell,
21 Goldstein in Atlanta on behalf of John and Patsy
22 Ramsey.
23 MR. HOFFMAN: I am Darnay Hoffman
24 appearing on behalf of Chris Wolf by
25 teleconference phone in New York City.
1 MR. WOOD: Everybody good to go?
2 MR. HOFFMAN: Ready to go.
3 MR. WOOD: This will, in fact, be
4 the deposition of Dr. Robert A. Stratbucker, an
5 individual who has been identified as an expert
6 witness for the plaintiff Chris Wolf in this
7 case and who has submitted a Rule 26 Expert
8 Witness Report.
9 The deposition is being taken
10 pursuant to agreement of counsel and pursuant to
11 an amended notice of deposition which is dated
12 May 16, 2002, which I have marked for purposes
13 of identification, Darnay, as Defendants' Exhibit
14 1.
15 MR. HOFFMAN: Thank you, Lin.
16 MR. WOOD: And the deposition will
17 be taken for all permissible purposes under the
18 Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, including
19 discovery, cross-examination and, if appropriate,
20 use as evidence at trial.
21 All objections except as to the form
22 of the question or the responsiveness of the
23 answer will be reserved until the time of trial,
24 hearing, or other formal use of the deposition.
25 Are those stipulations agreeable with
1 you, Darnay?
2 MR. HOFFMAN: Yes, Lin, thank you.
3 They are agreeable to me.
4 ROBERT A. STRATBUCKER, having been
5 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as
6 follows:
9 Q. For the record would you state your
10 full name for the record, please, sir?
11 A. Robert Allen Stratbucker.
12 Q. And there are a host of appropriate
13 initials after your name. You are a medical
14 doctor among other degrees that you hold; am I
15 right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And I will address you as Dr.
18 Stratbucker, which is appropriate.
19 Dr. Stratbucker, I've introduced
20 myself to you. I'm Lin Wood and along with
21 Mr. Rawls and Derek Bauer, we represent John and
22 Patsy Ramsey, the parents of JonBenet Ramsey who
23 was murdered in December of 1996 in Boulder,
24 Colorado. You understand that, don't you?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. And you understand that you have
2 been retained as an expert witness for an
3 individual named Chris Wolf, who is the
4 plaintiff in a lawsuit alleging libel filed
5 against Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey that pends in the
6 federal court in Atlanta, Georgia. Do you
7 understand that?
8 A. Yes, I do.
9 Q. When were you retained in this case,
10 sir?
11 A. About eight months ago.
12 Q. Can you date that for me with --
13 A. Well, I would have to check my
14 record to be precise about it.
15 Q. If you would do that, I would
16 appreciate it. I would like a precise date.
17 A. Well, the most precise date I can
18 give you is February 26 of this year, 2002,
19 which is the date of my report; however, I was
20 engaged prior to that. And the precise date of
21 that I can only estimate. I would say it was
22 about two months prior to that. It would be
23 about eight months ago.
24 Q. So you dated -- your best date, it
25 would be December 2001 or January 2002?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Do you recall the manner in which
3 you were first contacted?
4 A. I was contacted by telephone by Mr.
5 Hoffman.
6 Q. Let me tell you that I understand
7 that you are an extremely busy expert for Mr.
8 Hoffman, and I understand that you had to do a
9 fair amount of juggling of your schedule to
10 change this deposition from the date of the
11 28th, I believe, to today, the 30th to
12 accommodate my desire to do some family things
13 over the weekend. I appreciate that.
14 How many depositions have you given
15 this month?
16 A. This month I have not given any.
17 Q. How many court appearances have you
18 made this month?
19 A. None this month.
20 Q. How many active cases are you
21 presently engaged in as an expert witness?
22 A. Probably four.
23 Q. And what do you do with your time
24 other than your consultant work as an expert
25 witness?
1 A. Well, I maintain a part-time medical
2 practice. I am retired from full-time medical
3 practice at this point. And I have a number
4 of other biomedical engineering type enterprises
5 that I am involved in, principally a
6 development, research and development company of
7 my own which does development of medical
8 devices, diagnostic and therapeutic medical
9 devices.
10 And, for example, over the last
11 month, I have had occasion to be in Mainland
12 China for probably three weeks and other travel
13 related to that activity.
14 Q. What type of diagnostic and
15 therapeutic medical devices have been developed
16 by your company?
17 A. Cardiologic, primarily.
18 Q. So there is no misunderstanding, what
19 do you mean in lay terms when you say
20 cardiologic?
21 A. Devices that relate to the diagnosis
22 of heart disease and therapeutic devices that
23 relate to the treatment of heart disease.
24 Q. You have served as an expert witness
25 in civil litigation in the past as well as
1 criminal matters; is that true?
2 A. Yes, I have.
3 Q. Give me your best estimate, Dr.
4 Stratbucker, I am not trying to hold you to a
5 precise figure, but give me your best estimate
6 as to the amount of money, gross revenue that
7 you received in the year 2001 in your capacity
8 as a consultant/expert witness in civil or
9 criminal litigation.
10 A. I would say $75,000.
11 Q. How are we doing this year, 2002?
12 A. About on -- about average, about the
13 same.
14 Q. How long has that figure been about
15 the average, $75,000 a year?
16 A. I would say it is higher now. It
17 has been increasing over the years; but as an
18 average, I would say for a good ten years,
19 probably.
20 Q. Are you on a regular retainer as a
21 consultant/expert for any company?
22 A. I have been with some companies and
23 now with different companies.
24 Companies are acquired, and those
25 things change from time to time; but it has
1 been a relatively constant average.
2 Q. As we sit here today, what company,
3 or companies, pays you a regular retainer to
4 serve as a consultant/expert witness?
5 A. Within this last month, we have
6 managed to negotiate a contract with the
7 Department of Defense, which is actually
8 channeled through TASER International in Phoenix,
9 Arizona, a research project for the Marine
10 Corps. And that is a sizable research program
11 that I am very much involved in and one of the
12 reasons I have been so tied up this month.
13 Q. Are you paid by check from the
14 United States Treasury or are you paid by check
15 from TASER International?
16 A. I am paid by check from TASER
17 International. They are the fiscal repository
18 for the grant funds.
19 Q. And that only came up within the
20 last month?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Let me hand you what has been marked
23 for purposes of identification to your deposition
24 as Defendants' Exhibit-2.
25 And also while you are looking at
1 that, let me hand you what has been marked for
2 purposes of identification as Defendants'
3 Exhibit-3 and ask you to just look through
4 those. A couple of quick questions to ask you
5 about them.
6 A. All right.
7 Q. In fact, Defendants' Exhibit 2, that
8 is a true and correct and complete copy of the
9 Rule 26 expert report that you have prepared,
10 signed, and submitted in this lawsuit, true?
11 A. It is nearly complete. I noted in
12 one of the copies that's here that there was a
13 page missing out of the autopsy report that is
14 contained in this. And I have supplemented that
15 with a page from another source.
16 Q. Page 4 was missing from your report?
17 A. Page 4 was missing, yes.
18 Q. With the addition of page 4 of the
19 autopsy report on JonBenet Ramsey, does, in
20 fact, Defendants' Exhibit 2 represent a true and
21 correct and complete copy of your Rule 26 Expert
22 Witness Report?
23 A. Yes, it does.
24 Q. And you stand by your report; do you
25 not, sir?
1 A. Yes, I do.
2 Q. Is there anything that you would
3 like to change in that report before we question
4 you about it today?
5 A. No.
6 Q. You also, as part of that report,
7 have supplied us with a copy of your most
8 recent CV, your curriculum vitae; have you not?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And it is a true and -- I was
11 impressed with the thoroughness of it. You even
12 went back to age 19 when you were working at
13 WOW TV or radio, the Johnny Carson Show. It's
14 very thorough in terms of describing your
15 professional endeavors and work experience; is it
16 not, sir?
17 A. I hope it is, yes.
18 Q. And you intended it to be; did you
19 not?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. So that we can go there and we can
22 find out where you worked professionally, right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. We can find out who you worked for
25 in terms of your professional endeavors; can we
1 not, sir?
2 A. I think you can, yes.
3 Q. Do you stand by that CV as being
4 complete and accurate?
5 A. It might have a typographical error
6 here and there, but --
7 Q. We will forgive that.
8 A. -- for the most part, it is accurate
9 and complete.
10 Q. Well, you say for the most part.
11 Is there any part, other than typographical
12 errors, that you have some concerns about in
13 terms of it being accurate and complete?
14 A. Only that I think it has not been
15 updated for about -- I had it retyped, but I
16 didn't update it in preparation for this
17 deposition because of some requirements of the
18 type of display, the font size and so forth.
19 When I did that, it changed the pagination and
20 so forth of the thing. It is different than
21 it was. But I did not update it to include,
22 for example, the items that I've just testified
23 to in connection with the Marine Corps and some
24 of the things that have happened within the last
25 few months.
1 Q. I want to get those updated. So
2 tell me, other than -- and you say the Marine
3 Corps. Is that the Department of Defense
4 deal --
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. -- that's channeled through TASER
7 International?
8 A. That is correct.
9 Q. And that has been only in the last
10 month, right?
11 A. Well, it has been in preparation for
12 a long time. But, I mean, it is a research
13 and development contract that has been in
14 preparation for well over a year, but the award
15 had only been made within the last month.
16 Q. Anything else that you want to add
17 to your CV in terms of updating it other than
18 the Marine Corps, Department of Defense, TASER
19 International contract that you've just described
20 for me?
21 A. Well, there are a number of other
22 items that I referred to in connection with my
23 travels and so on. I am actively pursuing
24 those. Those are -- for example, there is a
25 proposition outstanding with a major Chinese
1 company to take on the manufacturing of a device
2 that I have developed here in Nebraska and have
3 got patent coverage and trademark coverage on
4 and so forth which lends itself to manufacturing
5 in the Chinese economy. And I have been very
6 active in the development of that line of
7 activity.
8 Q. What is that device?
9 A. It is the -- the trade name of it
10 is an Omnitrode, O-M-N-I-T-R-O-D-E. It is a
11 specialized piece of actual apparatus that a
12 patient wears in order to supply a very
13 comprehensive and complete line of cardiac data
14 to a computer system that in turn does various
15 kinds of pattern recognition, data compression
16 and so forth on the signal. It is integrated
17 into a complete system.
18 My colleagues in Houston have been
19 working primarily on the electronic aspects of
20 it, and I have been working on the front end
21 or data acquisition aspects of it for a number
22 of years, and I am very actively involved in
23 that.
24 Q. So we have the Omnitrode and we have
25 got the contract with the government through
1 TASER International. Any other things that you
2 need to give me to make sure that we have
3 updated your CV before we leave here today?
4 A. Those are the principal technical
5 aspects of things, and I still maintain a number
6 of local business enterprises that take up a
7 significant amount of my time. We happen to be
8 sitting in one right now.
9 Q. The bank?
10 A. Well, the building.
11 Q. You own this building?
12 A. Not the bank, but the building that
13 the bank is in is a building where I rent
14 space and operate some commercial enterprises.
15 Q. You do your fruit and vegetables
16 deal on Saturday, still?
17 A. That's right.
18 Q. Your dad Herman, right?
19 A. Exactly right. Thank you for being
20 so perceptive.
21 Q. You still work in the land? I know
22 you went back in, what, '91, to help him out?
23 A. That is correct, yes.
24 Q. And do you still do that?
25 A. Very much so.
1 Q. Still do the corn, half yellow, half
2 white?
3 A. Yes. Still deal with people in
4 Georgia for plants and so on.
5 Q. Good for you.
6 You recognize, Dr. Stratbucker, from
7 your involvement as an expert witness what your
8 role is; do you not?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. How would you describe your role as
11 an expert witness in the litigation?
12 A. Well, I describe my role as being
13 somewhat similar to my role as a teacher for
14 most of my professional life. And the purpose
15 of an expert witness is to teach the judge
16 and/or jury, the court, on matters which may be
17 unfamiliar with them and to make it possible to
18 properly assess evidence and so forth in the
19 face of unfamiliar, particularly high technology
20 sorts of things.
21 Q. Areas of expertise that are generally
22 considered to be beyond that of the knowledge of
23 a lay person?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And one of your roles, and I think
1 you view it as an important one, is to educate
2 the court, the jury, on scientific information?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. You also are called on, you
5 recognize, to take a certain set of facts and
6 to render opinions from those facts, true?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. And you recognize that as an expert
9 witness it is not your role to create facts; am
10 I right?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. You are not and would not
13 misrepresent facts or mislead anyone with respect
14 to the facts upon which you give your opinions,
15 true?
16 A. That is very true.
17 Q. And you are not taking sides here;
18 are you, sir?
19 A. No.
20 Q. I mean, you come into this dedicated
21 to the concept of your role is to be fair,
22 right?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. To be honest, right?
25 A. Correct.
1 Q. To be unbiased and objective, true?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And if I were to present you with
4 factual information, photographic or otherwise,
5 and you felt like the information that I have
6 presented you with established that JonBenet
7 Ramsey had marks on her body that are consistent
8 with the application of a stun gun, you wouldn't
9 hesitate to say that; would you, sir?
10 A. If I -- if it is all as you just
11 represented, that is correct. If all of the
12 evidence that you are referring to is
13 scientifically defensible, I would not have any
14 reservations about it, no.
15 Q. You do not have any agenda here,
16 hidden or otherwise; do you, sir?
17 A. No, sir, I do not.
18 Q. How much money does TASER
19 International pay you each month?
20 A. It's difficult to say because we are
21 just embarking on this now for the first time;
22 and I bill my time at a hourly rate, which
23 happens to be $125 an hour. And I have yet
24 actually to submit a bill. I need to do that
25 in the next probably day or two to finish out
1 this month, which is the first active month of
2 this program.
3 Q. So you have never received any money
4 from TASER International?
5 A. No.
6 Q. They don't pay you in your job as
7 medical director for TASER International?
8 A. Well, that is a very recent
9 description or title. And, in fact, I have not
10 been paid a cent for that up to this point.
11 Now, I have some anticipation that that will
12 change, particularly since the Marine Corps grant
13 or contract, actually, was approved.
14 Q. How recent has that title been
15 bestowed upon you, Medical Director for TASER
16 International, Inc.?
17 A. Well, I think it has been talked
18 about now for a couple of months. As to
19 whether it was a proper designation of the kind
20 of activity that I will be involved in, I have
21 actually commenced over the last probably 60
22 days to take on the role of an on-call medical
23 advisor, medical director, if you will, to
24 handle problems that come up in the field
25 related to their devices that they market, the
1 TASER in particular.
2 And because I have -- I thought when
3 I finished and retired from medical practice
4 that my on-call days and weekends and nights and
5 so forth were going to be freed up some, but I
6 have now jumped right back into the fire from
7 the frying pan, I think, carrying a full-time
8 pager so that I can be reached at a moment's
9 notice and that sort of thing.
10 Q. By TASER International?
11 A. Yes. Well, by -- and by -- and
12 their customers.
13 Q. Well, let me, because you indicated
14 that you had talked about the title for a
15 couple of months and as to whether it was a
16 proper designation that you will be involved in
17 or not.
18 Just plain and simple, do you hold
19 the position as the medical director for TASER
20 International, Inc., the manufacturer of the Air
21 TASER stun gun?
22 A. Yes, I do.
23 Q. How long have you held that
24 position, sir?
25 A. I would say, to be precise about it,
1 it was formally announced at a meeting in Las
2 Vegas two weeks ago.
3 Q. Is that when you took on the role,
4 two weeks ago?
5 A. Well, I haven't been paid yet, so I
6 don't know whether -- if it means I got a
7 check from them, I haven't got a check from
8 them.
9 Q. Sir, it doesn't mean whether you got
10 a check from them or not. You have a number
11 of degrees. You are an educated man. You
12 have been a businessman all of your life. It
13 is a simple question.
14 When did you become the medical
15 director for TASER International, Inc.? Two
16 weeks ago, two months ago? Tell me.
17 A. Oh, I am not sure that I can say
18 that I am even yet because I don't have cards.
19 I don't have any -- I don't have an official
20 statement from them. I don't have a letter.
21 I don't have anything other than the
22 presentation of myself as the newly appointed
23 medical director of TASER International at their
24 big annual meeting here a few weeks ago in Las
25 Vegas.
1 Q. So you would not have --
2 MR. HOFFMAN: Lin, may I ask you a
3 question?
4 MR. WOOD: No. Ask me a question?
5 MR. HOFFMAN: Yes. Are you asking
6 him when he actually began performing any duties
7 as a medical director for TASER?
8 MR. WOOD: I am not. I am asking
9 him when he became the medical director for
10 TASER International, Inc., period. That's my
11 question.
12 MR. HOFFMAN: Okay. Thank you.
13 Q. (By Mr. Wood) So you would not
14 have represented yourself as a medical director
15 for TASER International, Inc. until two weeks
16 ago when the announcement was made in Las Vegas,
17 right?
18 A. It certainly would have been an
19 unofficial or in the context of being that that
20 was a discussion that was ongoing and it was
21 highly likely that it would occur.
22 Q. But it had not occurred prior to two
23 weeks ago?
24 A. Prior to two weeks ago, it had not
25 occurred.
1 Q. And you had not, as Mr. Hoffman
2 suggested a good question, you had not taken on
3 any actual job responsibilities as the medical
4 director until two weeks ago; is that true?
5 A. The job responsibility --
6 Q. Is that true?
7 A. That is true, yes.
8 Q. And you don't know how much they are
9 going to pay you for that job; do you?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. How much?
12 A. They proposed to pay me $1,000 a
13 month as a retainer. The other activities will
14 be over and above that.
15 Q. And what about stock options, do you
16 have any stock options in TASER International,
17 Inc.?
18 A. No, I don't.
19 Q. Do you own any stock in that
20 company?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Have you been made any promises that
23 you would receive any such benefits --
24 A. No.
25 Q. -- from being associated with them?
1 A. No, I have not.
2 Q. Have you ever had any stock options?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. In TASER International, Inc.?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Tell me about those.
7 A. I was compensated by stock option
8 exclusively for work that I did for them several
9 years ago on animal studies for their device.
10 Those options matured and were executed.
11 Q. You purchased the stock?
12 A. Yeah. And I purchased the stock,
13 and I sold the stock. Actually I divided it
14 up amongst my relatives is what I did with it.
15 Q. How many shares of stock are we
16 talking about?
17 A. About 3,000.
18 Q. How much profit did you make on that
19 sale, gross?
20 A. About $40,000.
21 Q. $40,000 gross profit on the sale of
22 the stock of TASER International, Inc.?
23 A. Over the exercise price, yes.
24 Q. Over the exercise price. TASER
25 International, Inc. stock, right?
1 A. Right.
2 (Defendants' Exhibit-4 was marked for
3 identification.)
4 Q. (By Mr. Wood) Defendants' Exhibit-3.
5 Let me have back No. 2.
6 A. You want three?
7 Q. I want No. 2. I want you to look
8 at No. 3.

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