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  October-November 2018
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-26-2018, 10:09 AM - Forum: Burke sues CBS for 750 million - Replies (1)

[Image: logo-150.png]


[Image: jonbenet.four.we.have.your.daughter.cropped.png]
A 1996 Christmas photo of Burke and JonBenét Ramsey taken shortly before the girl's death.


JonBenét Ramsey Family Attorney on Ex-Boulder DA's Subpoena in CBS Suit

Michael Roberts | October 25, 2018 | 6:39am


The lawyer for Burke Ramsey, brother of JonBenét Ramsey, who was murdered in Boulder on Christmas Day 1996, believes that a subpoena issued for former Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter won't do anything to exonerate CBS in a $750 million lawsuit filed by Burke in December 2016.
To the contrary, Atlanta-based attorney Lin Wood thinks that Hunter's deposition would only undermine the assertion in the CBS program The Case of: JonBenét Ramsey that Burke killed his sister when he was nine and she was six, which he characterizes as both defamatory and utterly unsupported by facts.
"I believe Mr. Hunter was professionally and personally outraged by tabloid accusations made against Burke in 1999 while he was the district attorney," Wood notes in a Q&A below, "and I expect that he is equally outraged by the accusations made against this young man by CBS."
News of the subpoena broke in the Boulder Daily Camera, which reported that the former DA, who retired from the office in 2001 and is now 81 years old, is fighting the subpoena on multiple fronts. He's said to consider the demand that he offer his thoughts "an 'annoyance' that would interfere with his annual relocation to Hawaii," but also maintains that cooperating would "compromise an 'open investigation and potential prosecution' of the person or persons responsible for JonBenét's death."
[Image: dr.werner.spitz.two.youtube.jpg]Dr. Werner Spitz, left, watches as a child is called upon to act out a theory of how Burke Ramsey could have killed his sister, JonBenét, from the CBS program The Case of: JonBenét Ramsey.

CBS via YouTube

The Case of: JonBenét Ramsey aired in September 2016. The next month, Wood filed a $150 million suit against Dr. Werner Spitz, a Michigan-based forensic pathologist who theorized on the show that Burke had killed JonBenét with a blow to the head. And in October 2017, Wood hit CBS with a $350 million demand on behalf of Burke's father, John Ramsey. Patsy Ramsey, wife of John and mother to JonBenét and Burke, died of cancer in 2004.
"CBS perpetrated a fraud upon the public," according to the John Ramsey suit. "Instead of being a documentary based on a new and legitimate investigation by a team of qualified and unbiased experts, The Case of: JonBenét Ramsey was a fictional crime show based primarily on a preconceived storyline scripted in the self-published and commercially unsuccessful book Foreign Faction...self-published in 2012."
Another section of the suit maintains that "Defendants’ accusation that John covered-up that Burke killed JonBenét was not based on a complete investigation revealing truthful facts, new witnesses, new evidence or new theories. Instead, Defendants consciously built their Documentary on an illegitimate and unfounded investigation, false and omitted facts, old witnesses, old evidence and old theories."
CBS moved for the lawsuits to be tossed, but in January, Judge David Groner allowed each to move forward. Hence the network's subpoena for Hunter, who, the Camera notes, "signed an affidavit in October 2000, shortly before leaving office, which stated in part, 'From December 26th, 1996, to the date of this affidavit, no evidence has ever been developed in the investigation to justify elevating Burke Ramsey's status from that of witness to suspect.'"
[Image: alex.hunter.file.photo.jpg]Alex Hunter during his days as the district attorney for Boulder County.

File photo

This position leaves Wood wondering why CBS would have such an interest in having Hunter weigh in, as he makes clear in the following Q&A, conducted via email.
Westword: Why do you think Alex Hunter has been subpoenaed in relation to the lawsuit?
Lin Wood: CBS issued the subpoena, so only CBS can state why the subpoena was issued to Mr. Hunter. The CBS documentary concluded that Burke Ramsey killed his sister based on CBS’ representation that a full re-investigation of the evidence had been undertaken by its team of "experts." In his libel lawsuit, Burke challenges not only the accusation, but also the legitimacy of this alleged "re-investigation."
CBS has apparently realized that the evidence relied upon by its "experts" does not support the accusation against Burke. The recent discovery efforts aimed at Boulder officials, including Mr. Hunter, confirm that CBS is still searching for evidence to support its false and defamatory accusation against Burke. Stated differently, if CBS had enough evidence to support its accusation being broadcast to the world in its 2016 documentary, why in the world is CBS searching for more evidence in 2019?
The answer is obvious — the 2016 documentary was rank speculation unsupported by any credible evidence and CBS knows it. CBS is in search of a defense it will never find.
Why is it important that Alex Hunter cooperate with the subpoena?
Mr. Hunter is a third party to this litigation and has the right to question whether there is a legitimate need for his testimony and/or whether the subpoena imposes unnecessary trouble and expense. I do not view Mr. Hunter’s motion to quash as being based solely on inconvenience to him or as an effort on his part to be uncooperative. CBS has the burden of convincing the Court that there is a legitimate need for discovery from Mr. Hunter.
[Image: burke.ramsey.youtube.jpg]Burke Ramsey during a 2016 interview on the Dr. Phil program.

YouTube file photo

What information do you believe Alex Hunter has that pertains to the lawsuit?
Based on his May, 1999, press statement and his October 2000 sworn affidavit (executed one year after the end of the grand jury investigation), which cleared Burke of any suspicion based on the actual evidence, I am confident that the only information Mr. Hunter could offer in this case would support Burke’s case against CBS. Accusing Burke of killing his sister while ignoring the statements of former District Attorney Hunter and other knowledgeable Boulder law enforcement officials was the height of recklessness on the part of CBS.
How would you characterize Alex Hunter's role in the investigation into the murder of JonBenét Ramsey?
As the Boulder District Attorney at the time of the murder until his retirement, Mr. Hunter was the public official with final authority over the investigation and decisions as to whether the evidence supported criminal charges being filed against any individual. I believe Mr. Hunter was professionally and personally outraged by tabloid accusations made against Burke in 1999 while he was the District Attorney and I expect that he is equally outraged by the accusations made against this young man by CBS.
What is the current status of the lawsuit, and can you provide a general timeline of what will happen next?
The parties are in the final stages of document production and are also actively taking depositions. Discovery will likely be complete by mid-2019. I expect CBS will thereafter follow standard media defense strategy by filing a motion for summary judgment. I am confident that such a motion will be unsuccessful and the case will move to a jury trial in late 2019 or early 2020.




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  found on TOPIX
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 08:55 PM - Forum: Found on other forums - No Replies

Dedred
 
The simple truth. They didn't know about the Pineapple until an open can was found on the cellar floor. And being in the criminal state of mind concocted an alibi and gave life to a seemingless meaningless item

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  from another state 1961
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 07:50 PM - Forum: Colorado crimes - No Replies

Anne Marie Burr - Abducted by a Serial Killer?

[Image: renderTimingPixel.png]


Anne Marie Burr, aged 8, disappeared from her Tacoma, Washington home on August 31st, 1961.



[b]Timeline of Events[/b]
[i]A week before August 31st[/i]
Neighbors report seeing someone looking through windows of houses in the Burr's neighborhood. No one is able to give a good description of the "Peeping Tom".
[i]August 31st[/i]
Evening/Nighttime: Burr children and parents go to bed. One sister and two brothers went to the basement where their rooms were, Ann Marie and her younger sister went to their bedroom, the parents to theirs.
Middle of the Night: Anne Marie's younger sister begins to cry because the cast on her broken arm is bothering her. Ann Marie takes her sister into her parents' bedroom where they are both told to go back to bed.
Later: Parents awake to their dog barking, but assume it's because of the rainstorms that had been coming through the area and go back to sleep. The other children report not waking at all during the night.
[i]September 1st[/i]
5:30AM Anne Marie's Mother goes to check on her daughters and notices Ann Marie is not in bed. She begins to look around the house and sees that their front door which had been locked the previous night was now open and unlocked. Their living room window which was always open an inch or two was open wider. The family calls the police and continues searching the house for Ann Marie.
Sometime later that morning: The Police arrive and immediately launch an abduction investigation. Upon further inspection to the opened living room window they see that someone had pushed a garden bench under the window. There was also a footprint left from a Men's Keds sneaker, size 6 or 7. The police surmise this was made by a young adult male, or a small adult male. A red fiber was also found attached to the window sill, but nothing ever came of it.
Police investigated several sex offenders in the neighborhood but nothing was ever found, no new evidence surfaced, and no trace of Ann Marie was ever seen again.



Despite an exhaustive search and heavy questioning of the neighborhood no trace was ever found of Ann Marie's killer and her case grew cold. In the late 70's her case was given renewed interest when a man named Ted Bundy stood trial for the kidnapping, rape, and murders of women across the county.
I'm not going to hash out too much of Ted Bundy's history here; I will include links at the bottom if you don't know who he is or want to brush up on the finer points.
The reason for the renewed interest with the Bundy trials was because of the coincidental connections between him and Ann Marie;
  • In the 60's Ted Bundy and his mother were living with his great-uncle, Jack Cromwell, who happened to be Ann Marie's piano teacher.
  • They lived in close proximity to each other.
  • Relatives have stated that Ann Marie and Ted Bundy were friendly with each other and she knew he was the nephew of her piano teacher. As far as they know she wouldn't have had any reason to fear him.
  • Ted Bundy would have been 15 at the time of Ann Marie's disappearance, and would match the profile for the size shoe print found outside the window.
  • Bundy already had a record for wandering around late at night, and as an adult admitted to voyeurism (peeping through windows).
  • Ted Bundy had a paper route that included the Burr residence.
  • The street in front of the Burr home was being torn up for repaving the night she disappeared only to be covered with dirt and asphalt the next day. According to Burr's father the morning of her disappearance Ted Bundy was hanging around the construction site.
  • The true amount of women Ted Bundy killed is questionable. We know as his execution date drew nearer he started to hint about other murders, and give out some answers but he always refused to talk about Ann Marie Burr or would deny involvement. There is some speculation that Ted Bundy was ashamed at some of his murders, particularly ones of younger females such as 12yr old Kimberly Leach who he never admitted to but had evidence linking him as the killer.

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  from Newsweek
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 05:56 PM - Forum: Pam and Kristine Griffin - Replies (2)

FOCUSING ON THE FAMILY ON THURSDAY MORNING, DEC. 26, 1996, THE BOULDER, COLO., Police Department received a 911 call at 5:52 a.m. The caller, Patsy Ramsey, said her daughter, JonBenet, had been kidnapped and there was a ransom note. When the first officer arrived eight minutes later, he searched the house for the child and for any sign of forced entry, but found nothing. It was still dark outside.
By noon everyone was still waiting for the kidnappers to call. An hour later JonBenet's father, John Ramsey, searched the house for something that might have been taken along with his daughter. Moments later he found JonBenet's body--wrapped in a white blanket, her mouth covered with duct tape--in the wine cellar in the basement of the house. It was 1:05 p.m.
At Boulder police headquarters, Det. Sgt. Larry Mason got a page from the Ramsey house: ""We've got a body.''
""Oh, f---,'' Mason said, half aloud. ""Ron,'' he told FBI Special Agent Ron Walker, ""it's a homicide.''
Walker, an experienced FBI profiler, knew that finding JonBenet's body in her own home meant there had probably never been a kidnapping. In the case of a homicide where the dead child is found in the parents' home, the FBI's standard procedure is to investigate the parents and the immediate family first and then move outward in circles. Then would come people who had frequent access to the child--babysitters and domestic help. The next circle would contain friends and business associates. The outermost circle would be strangers. The technique was to avoid leaping over these concentric circles too quickly.
Fifteen minutes later Mason and Walker arrived at the Ramseys' house. First they looked at the body, lying now at the foot of the living-room Christmas tree, a noose around JonBenet's neck. Then they went downstairs to the wine cellar. Mason noticed that there was something about the crime scene--he couldn't put his finger on it--that made it look unnatural. Meanwhile, in the Ramseys' study, another detective overheard John Ramsey talking on the phone to his private pilot. He was making plans to fly somewhere before nightfall. Moments later Ramsey told Mason that he, his wife and his son would be flying to Atlanta that evening. ""You can't leave,'' Mason told him. ""We have to talk to you.''
At 7 p.m., Detectives Fred Patterson and Greg Idler knocked on the door of the Ramseys' housekeeper, Linda Hoffmann-Pugh. That morning Patsy Ramsey had told police her housekeeper had a key to the house and had major money problems. The police told Hoffmann-Pugh that JonBenet had been murdered. She screamed and couldn't stop shaking. After the housekeeper settled down, they asked her to print some words on a sheet of paper--Mr. Ramsey, attachE, beheaded and the number $118,000 (unknown to her, all phrases in the ransom note)--but Linda was too upset to write. She assumed that JonBenet had been beheaded.
The police spent three hours talking to the Pughs that night. Had Linda ever witnessed any signs of sexual abuse in the Ramsey household? Had JonBenet ever wet the bed? Had Linda seen semen, blood or anything unusual on the child's bed? On anyone else's bed? Hoffmann-Pugh would know for sure she was a suspect when the police returned the next day to search her house and fingerprint her. At a local doctor's office, she cried as the police yanked strands of hair from her head and she gave blood samples.
On the afternoon of Dec. 27, Pam Griffin found a telephone message from Patsy's sister Polly. ""Patsy needs you right now.'' Griffin was the seamstress who made JonBenet's pageant costumes and was Patsy's confidante about beauty pageants. At the Boulder home of John and Barbara Fernie, friends of the Ramseys', Pam, a former registered nurse, touched Patsy's skin and realized she was dehydrated. She brought Patsy some water and made her drink it. ""You need to brush your hair,'' Pam told her. ""You need to lie down a little bit.'' But Patsy stood up to greet each new person who arrived to offer condolences, and as she did, tears streamed down her face. Hours later, Patsy finally took Pam's advice and lay down in the bedroom.
Patsy reached up and touched Pam's face. ""Couldn't you fix this for me?'' she asked. Pam thought she was delirious. It was as if Patsy were asking her to fix a ripped seam. ""Patsy said something like, "We didn't mean for that to happen','' Pam would say later. Pam couldn't say why, but she remembered feeling as if Patsy knew who killed JonBenet but was afraid to say.
While Patsy slept, Pam went downstairs. She found John in the living room holding the Ramseys' other child, Burke. To Pam, John Ramsey seemed to be in a trance. His face was blank. His eyes were red. ""I don't get it,'' he said over and over. Then he got up, walked outside, shook his head and asked aloud, ""Why?''

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  from Newsweek
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 05:55 PM - Forum: Pam and Kristine Griffin - No Replies

FOCUSING ON THE FAMILY ON THURSDAY MORNING, DEC. 26, 1996, THE BOULDER, COLO., Police Department received a 911 call at 5:52 a.m. The caller, Patsy Ramsey, said her daughter, JonBenet, had been kidnapped and there was a ransom note. When the first officer arrived eight minutes later, he searched the house for the child and for any sign of forced entry, but found nothing. It was still dark outside.
By noon everyone was still waiting for the kidnappers to call. An hour later JonBenet's father, John Ramsey, searched the house for something that might have been taken along with his daughter. Moments later he found JonBenet's body--wrapped in a white blanket, her mouth covered with duct tape--in the wine cellar in the basement of the house. It was 1:05 p.m.
At Boulder police headquarters, Det. Sgt. Larry Mason got a page from the Ramsey house: ""We've got a body.''
""Oh, f---,'' Mason said, half aloud. ""Ron,'' he told FBI Special Agent Ron Walker, ""it's a homicide.''
Walker, an experienced FBI profiler, knew that finding JonBenet's body in her own home meant there had probably never been a kidnapping. In the case of a homicide where the dead child is found in the parents' home, the FBI's standard procedure is to investigate the parents and the immediate family first and then move outward in circles. Then would come people who had frequent access to the child--babysitters and domestic help. The next circle would contain friends and business associates. The outermost circle would be strangers. The technique was to avoid leaping over these concentric circles too quickly.
Fifteen minutes later Mason and Walker arrived at the Ramseys' house. First they looked at the body, lying now at the foot of the living-room Christmas tree, a noose around JonBenet's neck. Then they went downstairs to the wine cellar. Mason noticed that there was something about the crime scene--he couldn't put his finger on it--that made it look unnatural. Meanwhile, in the Ramseys' study, another detective overheard John Ramsey talking on the phone to his private pilot. He was making plans to fly somewhere before nightfall. Moments later Ramsey told Mason that he, his wife and his son would be flying to Atlanta that evening. ""You can't leave,'' Mason told him. ""We have to talk to you.''
At 7 p.m., Detectives Fred Patterson and Greg Idler knocked on the door of the Ramseys' housekeeper, Linda Hoffmann-Pugh. That morning Patsy Ramsey had told police her housekeeper had a key to the house and had major money problems. The police told Hoffmann-Pugh that JonBenet had been murdered. She screamed and couldn't stop shaking. After the housekeeper settled down, they asked her to print some words on a sheet of paper--Mr. Ramsey, attachE, beheaded and the number $118,000 (unknown to her, all phrases in the ransom note)--but Linda was too upset to write. She assumed that JonBenet had been beheaded.
The police spent three hours talking to the Pughs that night. Had Linda ever witnessed any signs of sexual abuse in the Ramsey household? Had JonBenet ever wet the bed? Had Linda seen semen, blood or anything unusual on the child's bed? On anyone else's bed? Hoffmann-Pugh would know for sure she was a suspect when the police returned the next day to search her house and fingerprint her. At a local doctor's office, she cried as the police yanked strands of hair from her head and she gave blood samples.
On the afternoon of Dec. 27, Pam Griffin found a telephone message from Patsy's sister Polly. ""Patsy needs you right now.'' Griffin was the seamstress who made JonBenet's pageant costumes and was Patsy's confidante about beauty pageants. At the Boulder home of John and Barbara Fernie, friends of the Ramseys', Pam, a former registered nurse, touched Patsy's skin and realized she was dehydrated. She brought Patsy some water and made her drink it. ""You need to brush your hair,'' Pam told her. ""You need to lie down a little bit.'' But Patsy stood up to greet each new person who arrived to offer condolences, and as she did, tears streamed down her face. Hours later, Patsy finally took Pam's advice and lay down in the bedroom.
Patsy reached up and touched Pam's face. ""Couldn't you fix this for me?'' she asked. Pam thought she was delirious. It was as if Patsy were asking her to fix a ripped seam. ""Patsy said something like, "We didn't mean for that to happen','' Pam would say later. Pam couldn't say why, but she remembered feeling as if Patsy knew who killed JonBenet but was afraid to say.
While Patsy slept, Pam went downstairs. She found John in the living room holding the Ramseys' other child, Burke. To Pam, John Ramsey seemed to be in a trance. His face was blank. His eyes were red. ""I don't get it,'' he said over and over. Then he got up, walked outside, shook his head and asked aloud, ""Why?''

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  from Newsweek
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 05:54 PM - Forum: Pam and Kristine Griffin - Replies (1)

FOCUSING ON THE FAMILY ON THURSDAY MORNING, DEC. 26, 1996, THE BOULDER, COLO., Police Department received a 911 call at 5:52 a.m. The caller, Patsy Ramsey, said her daughter, JonBenet, had been kidnapped and there was a ransom note. When the first officer arrived eight minutes later, he searched the house for the child and for any sign of forced entry, but found nothing. It was still dark outside.
By noon everyone was still waiting for the kidnappers to call. An hour later JonBenet's father, John Ramsey, searched the house for something that might have been taken along with his daughter. Moments later he found JonBenet's body--wrapped in a white blanket, her mouth covered with duct tape--in the wine cellar in the basement of the house. It was 1:05 p.m.
At Boulder police headquarters, Det. Sgt. Larry Mason got a page from the Ramsey house: ""We've got a body.''
""Oh, f---,'' Mason said, half aloud. ""Ron,'' he told FBI Special Agent Ron Walker, ""it's a homicide.''
Walker, an experienced FBI profiler, knew that finding JonBenet's body in her own home meant there had probably never been a kidnapping. In the case of a homicide where the dead child is found in the parents' home, the FBI's standard procedure is to investigate the parents and the immediate family first and then move outward in circles. Then would come people who had frequent access to the child--babysitters and domestic help. The next circle would contain friends and business associates. The outermost circle would be strangers. The technique was to avoid leaping over these concentric circles too quickly.
Fifteen minutes later Mason and Walker arrived at the Ramseys' house. First they looked at the body, lying now at the foot of the living-room Christmas tree, a noose around JonBenet's neck. Then they went downstairs to the wine cellar. Mason noticed that there was something about the crime scene--he couldn't put his finger on it--that made it look unnatural. Meanwhile, in the Ramseys' study, another detective overheard John Ramsey talking on the phone to his private pilot. He was making plans to fly somewhere before nightfall. Moments later Ramsey told Mason that he, his wife and his son would be flying to Atlanta that evening. ""You can't leave,'' Mason told him. ""We have to talk to you.''
At 7 p.m., Detectives Fred Patterson and Greg Idler knocked on the door of the Ramseys' housekeeper, Linda Hoffmann-Pugh. That morning Patsy Ramsey had told police her housekeeper had a key to the house and had major money problems. The police told Hoffmann-Pugh that JonBenet had been murdered. She screamed and couldn't stop shaking. After the housekeeper settled down, they asked her to print some words on a sheet of paper--Mr. Ramsey, attachE, beheaded and the number $118,000 (unknown to her, all phrases in the ransom note)--but Linda was too upset to write. She assumed that JonBenet had been beheaded.
The police spent three hours talking to the Pughs that night. Had Linda ever witnessed any signs of sexual abuse in the Ramsey household? Had JonBenet ever wet the bed? Had Linda seen semen, blood or anything unusual on the child's bed? On anyone else's bed? Hoffmann-Pugh would know for sure she was a suspect when the police returned the next day to search her house and fingerprint her. At a local doctor's office, she cried as the police yanked strands of hair from her head and she gave blood samples.
On the afternoon of Dec. 27, Pam Griffin found a telephone message from Patsy's sister Polly. ""Patsy needs you right now.'' Griffin was the seamstress who made JonBenet's pageant costumes and was Patsy's confidante about beauty pageants. At the Boulder home of John and Barbara Fernie, friends of the Ramseys', Pam, a former registered nurse, touched Patsy's skin and realized she was dehydrated. She brought Patsy some water and made her drink it. ""You need to brush your hair,'' Pam told her. ""You need to lie down a little bit.'' But Patsy stood up to greet each new person who arrived to offer condolences, and as she did, tears streamed down her face. Hours later, Patsy finally took Pam's advice and lay down in the bedroom.
Patsy reached up and touched Pam's face. ""Couldn't you fix this for me?'' she asked. Pam thought she was delirious. It was as if Patsy were asking her to fix a ripped seam. ""Patsy said something like, "We didn't mean for that to happen','' Pam would say later. Pam couldn't say why, but she remembered feeling as if Patsy knew who killed JonBenet but was afraid to say.
While Patsy slept, Pam went downstairs. She found John in the living room holding the Ramseys' other child, Burke. To Pam, John Ramsey seemed to be in a trance. His face was blank. His eyes were red. ""I don't get it,'' he said over and over. Then he got up, walked outside, shook his head and asked aloud, ""Why?''

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  Troy Cowen
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 03:34 PM - Forum: Misinformation found elsewhere, not BORG but wrong - Replies (2)

He is BORG - more than that, he accuses BURKE on his website.  a search here will bring up his theory.

He shared his theory and then some updates that are riddled with errors -   check it out.



May 2001

One year later, detective Lou Smit presented his intruder theory on the Today Show. He stated that the DNA, found in the panties and under JonBenét's fingernails, did not match John or Burke Ramsey and indicated an intruder. He said that the hair found on the blanket was also an indication of an intruder.

It has been stated that the DNA in JonBenét's panties and under her finger nails were several days old and degraded. While Smit believed the hair found on the blanket belonged to an intruder, it has subsequently been identified as belonging to Patsy Ramsey.

Molecular biologist Melissa Weber of Cell Mark Laboratories consulted several detectives after Cell Mark analyzed the DNA. Steve Thomas and Deputy DA DeMuth were at this meeting; Lou Smit was not. Steve Thomas said that Melissa Weber stated that the analysis showed the possibility that there may be DNA of another person mixed in with JonBenét's DNA found in the panties and under her fingernails.

However, this foreign DNA could be the result of a false positive (stutter). Melissa Weber went on to say that if there were two sources of DNA and they were mixed together, then no one could be excluded. This is contrary to Lou Smit's statement that John and Burke had been excluded. Shortly after the meeting with Weber, Deputy DA DeMuth announced that the DNA did not match John Ramsey's DNA. While technically a true statement, a better statement would have been, "No DNA match is possible under present technology".

When Cell Mark Laboratories was given the job of testing the DNA under JonBenét's fingernails and in her panties, there wasn't enough DNA to test, so they had to grow more DNA from the small sample they did have. The process of growing more DNA from a small sample is called PCR amplification. Unfortunately, when you don't have a perfect sample, the DNA is old, degraded or damaged, the imperfect DNA is amplified also. Sometimes, this imperfect DNA, or non-matching DNA, gives a false impression that it is another person’s DNA.

Having additional markers is a common problem with PCR amplification. Scientist call this problem, stuttering or shadow bands. When the DNA under the fingernails and in the panties was tested, there were more markers than there should have been. What caused these extra markers? Amplifying degraded DNA may be responsible for the extra markers, not an intruder.

Smit also said that the shoe print found near the body was also an indication of an intruder. He said that it was his belief that the intruder came into the house through the basement window, leaving a scuff mark on the wall as his shoe slid down the wall. He did not say whether the Hi-Tec brand of shoe that made the print in the basement was capable of making the scuff mark found on the basement wall. The material found in the scuff mark should match the sole of the shoe. They did not test John Ramsey's shoes to see if one of them could have made the scuff mark.

From the beginning, many people believed that the John Ramsey hired private investigators to help find the killer of JonBenét. We remember getting reports that private investigators were on the scene the day after the murder asking question and getting information from Ramsey’s neighbors. To many, it demonstrated that the Ramsey’s were innocent. Why would the guilty hire investigators to collect evidence the prosecutor would use against them?

 On May 31, 2000, John said on Larry King Live "We've had investigators, seasoned investigators collectively with over 500 homicides under their belt who have been working on this case day in and day out. They have questions, they have information." We now learn that there never was a private investigation into the death of JonBenét. On December 12, 2001, during a deposition, John Ramsey said that the "purpose of those investigators was to prepare a defense in the case that the police might bring a charge against me."

Many are saddened to learn that there was no private investigation into the death of JonBenét. Because of the Ramsey and OJ case, many have lost faith in our legal system. A system easily manipulated by the rich and powerful. Even Ramsey's head investigator, Ellis Armistead, has stated that he has lost faith in the system. In an article in the Rocky Mountain News, Armistead said his assignment was not to solve the crime. "It was to keep the Ramseys from being arrested."

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  sick theory from T Cowen
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 03:04 PM - Forum: just BORG hate - Replies (2)

Part of his BURKE did it theory, this is sick fantasy that speaks more about T Cowen than the evidence in this crime.



Denver, Colorado, 1996

A few days before Christmas there was a large party near Denver. This party was for the entire West Coast mob. The mob had their party just before Christmas so that a large gathering would not attract attention. At this party, the goal was to grant every person their sexual gratification. The party’s organizers provided boys, girls, young men and young women for the pleasure of the attendees.

JonBenét was the daughter of John Ramsey and a six-year-old beauty pageant winner. A small segment of the mob that enjoys playing with small girls knows about JonBenét. The mob wants JonBenét and they give their guarantee to John that they will not harm her. John's first reaction was—not with my daughter! 

A mob boss applied pressure on John until he relented. To John’s dismay, he now understands the high cost of doing business with the mob. The party’s organizers also asked Fleet to contact his father to get help in finding a man that was an expert with a garrote.

Before taking JonBenét to the party, John told her that it won’t take long and she must be quiet and still while the men examine her. At the party, in a private room, JonBenet is naked and lies on a table. A small group of men is watching as one man puts a leather collar around JonBenét’s neck and then the cord that goes over the collar. JonBenét is very troubled by the strange events happening to her, but she obeys her father to be still. The man twist the cord, making it tighter. The man is very gentle with her and the cord is just tight enough to reduce blood flow to her brain. 

The garrote around her neck was not painful and there was very little discomfort.  When JonBenét was ready, the man nodded his head and the men around the table began to fondle her. Even though she was frightened most of the time, she enjoyed the men stroking her and she had an intense orgasm at the end. The men did not harm JonBenét and everyone enjoyed the experience. John picked her up at the party and took her home. That night, JonBenét wets the bed for the first time in over a year.

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  T. Cowen on NK's childhood
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 02:55 PM - Forum: Nancy Krebs - No Replies

Southern California

Nancy Krebs’ appalling childhood

Fleet White was born in 1913. In High school, Fleet White became friends with a classmate named Gordon Christoff. Soon each boy discovered that his friend was attracted to little girls. 

After high school, Fleet went to college. He was strong, good looking, and athletic. He sang well and had a good personality. After college, he started a business selling lubricants and invested his money in drilling for oil. He became a part owner in a very successful well in Riverside, California. If Fleet lived near you, you would be proud to have him as a member of your community. 

As with most men, Fleet liked girls. However, the problem for many young girls was that their age didn’t matter to Fleet. Fleet met and formed friendships with other men that had a similar interest in little girls. Fleet and his friends sexually abused children on a regular basis. Authorities never arrested them and they were never prosecuted, except for one—Mackey Boykin. He was able to make a plea bargain and served ten months in jail.

Fleet’s high school friend, Gordon Christoff, married Alyce and they had a daughter named Gwen. The Christoff’s asked Fleet White to be Gwen’s godfather. He accepted. Gwen grew up and in 1960; Gwen married Don Krebs. The Krebs had a daughter in 1962 and named her Nancy.

In 1966, Gordon became upset when he found Fleet fondling his granddaughter. A violent argument ensued. During this intense verbal argument, Gordon clutched his hands to his chest and died of a massive heart attack. 

After Gordon’s death, Alyce married Albert Sprague. Fleet became friends with Albert and both men shared an attraction for Nancy.

When Nancy’s father, Don Krebs, discovered that his wife was having extramarital affairs, he divorced Gwen. After the divorce, Gwen married Tom Boykin. Gwen, Nancy, and Nancy’s little sister moved into the Boykin family's trailer. 

The Boykins slept in a bedroom at one end of the trailer and the newlywed couple, Gwen and Tom, slept in a bedroom at the other end of the trailer. Nancy, her sister, and several older Boykin boys slept in the living room in the middle of the trailer. They were living in poverty.

Tom’s brother was Mackey Boykin. Mackey loved little girls and he was good with a garrote. Fleet, Albert, Tom, and Mackey became friends. To a different degree, each one was attracted to Nancy Krebs

Tom and Gwen started receiving financial support from Fleet White. Without protest from Nancy’s mother and stepfather, Fleet, Albert, and Mackey started fondling Nancy. Soon their fondling turned into having intercourse. Sometimes Nancy’s mother, stepfather, and grandmother would watch as the men had sex with her. Fleet's money and the men’s sexual contact with Nancy lasted for over a decade. As Nancy grew older and more rebellious, her mother gave Nancy drugs to gain her cooperation. As long as Nancy was available for sex, the money kept flowing.

Mackey became an expert at using a garrote. He would use the garrote to create a mild state of oxygen deprivation in a victim’s brain. When the brain is mildly oxygen starved, the body becomes very sensitive to sexual stimulation. Sexual stimulation while the brain is oxygen deprived gives an intense orgasm. Erotic asphyxiation is more pleasurable and habit forming than cocaine.

For centuries, people have been using various choking techniques to create a mild state of oxygen starvation. The garrote in the hands of a skilled practitioner can precisely control the amount of blood reaching the brain. Correctly using the garrote along with sexual stimulation can give an intense orgasm. Nancy said, “There was a reason that they did that and that was because they wanted me to be excited in the sexual way”. Nancy was sexually stimulated and aroused. Despite her age, she had an intense orgasm. 

Fleet had an adult son that lived in Boulder, Colorado. John Ramsey and Fleet Jr. were best friends.

In 1990, Nancy sought help to overcome her fear and mistrust of people. After ten years of rape victim counseling, Nancy's therapist saw a program on JonBenét's murder. The therapist was able to determine that the man Nancy had been telling her about and the Fleet in the Ramsey case were father and son. The therapist talked Nancy into going to the Boulder police.


The police interviewed Nancy and she was unable to recall the exact dates or locations of the abuse that occurred in her childhood. She would make an unreliable witness. The police determined that the abuse in California was unrelated to the murder in Colorado. Nancy's story eventually leaked to the newspapers. People called her a publicity hound. Others said she was a diseased drug addict and a liar. The public tossed her away like an old newspaper.

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  just a recap of her interviews
Posted by: jameson245 - 10-25-2018, 12:40 PM - Forum: Nancy Krebs - Replies (1)

OK, so here I am going to go look for a bit of background - bear with me
[b]Nancy was born on April 25, 1962 - [/b]
[b]Nyla White, Fleet's mother, stayed in touch with Nancy's grandmother over the years and sent her photos of Fleet's family. (referred to in NK interviews.)  [/b]
[b]Fleet and his family lived in Long Beach and NKs family was about an hour away in Buena Park.  So they didn't see each other every day or anything like that.  Nancy says only at holidays or special occasions like birthdays - - so we are talking maybe 10 times a year, probably less.[/b]

[b]She says Fleet SR. was molesting her from an early age - at about 3 or 4   and  that sometimes these molestations took place at her grandparents' house, but also at other places.[/b]
[b]On Fleet Jr. who would have been about 15 yr old - "I think that he was made to do things to me."[/b]

[b]2/6/1966 - Nancy would have just turned 4 - she remembers her grandfather was PROTECTING her, in  a screaming fight with Fleet SR - and he had a massive heart attack and died. [/b]
[b]She says she doesn't know what the argument was about but she says that Fleet Sr said  "he was tryin' to tough me or something" [/b]

[b]She never told her grandmother, Alyce, what was happening but her own parents not only knew about the assaults, they were involved.  Her mother, Gwen Boykin, took her to the Whites to be assaulted.[/b]

[b]Fleet SR and JR both raped her vaginally, anally and orally.   The last time Fleet SR raped her was on August 9th, 1990.  That last time, she was at her grandparents, Nyla was there, and she said her grandmother, Alyce Sprague, Albert Sprague (Alyce's husband) and Nyla White all saw Fleet SR take her to a bedroom where he raped her 3 ways.  [/b]
[b]She never told anyone about that episode.[/b]

[b]Last time Fleet JR supposedly raped her was some time between 1976 and 1978.[/b]
[b]Asked why she thinks it stopped:[/b]
A. Okay um ...any reason why Fleet White Jr. stopped the assaults back in '78 I guess (inaudible)
D. We1l..."um I think because it……it had gotten to a point where I was being abused so much that um people were noticing things where I was going to school
A. Uh-huh
D. And they reported that there was some child abuse going on
A. Okay

D. And at that point in time I went to uh sex investigation and then later uh they went to a preliminary hearing and then the person um pleaded no contest to statutory rape and sodomy 

[b]That person was Mackie Boykin, her step-father's brother and he made a plea bargain in June of 1980. He did 10 months in jail.    There was no mention of the White's at that time.  Just Boykin who lived very close to her family at the time.  She admits she didn't tell social services about the Whites at that time - and please remember, at that time she was about 18 years old.  And in part 2 of her interview she says [/b]: [b]D. Yeah I think the very first person to sexually assault me was Mackie Boykin.[/b]

[b]She also says he continued to sexually assault her after he got out of jail.[/b]
[b]She also says her Dad's parents, Harold and Lois Krebs, were involved in the sexual assaults.[/b]
[b]That's a lot of accusations - - but the only one I see brought to LE before the Ramsey murder is Mackie Boykin.[/b]


[b]Fleet and Priscilla visited Nancy's uncle and aunt in Bakersville in the mid-1980's and Nancy was present there.  She didn't speak up then.[/b]

[b]She only spoke about the Whites being involved in her abuse after signing on with Mary Bienkowski.  [/b]

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